Evidence for God from Science

Several questions:

Is it wrong to report a brother or sister in Christ to the civil authorities for sexual abusing a child?

Would it be wrong to contact the civil authorities if several years passed and the abuser states he/she has not abused a child since?

Keep the following in mind while answering: The abuser does not deny the abuse. If approached by the authorities the abuser states he/she will confess. The abuser has received counseling from a friend of the family but has not gotten therapy. The abuser claims he/she is held accountable by an accountability partner. That accountability partner knew about the previous abuse when the abuser confessed and did nothing. The abuser has access to children in the church he attends and works at. The members of that church do not know about the abuse. Several staff members of the church know about the abuse but they are friends and family of the abuser and admit they started to the church to "shelter" people like the abuser from possible ridicule.

I look forward to your answers.

Why would it be wrong to report them. They have done something wrong and they should pay for what they have done. It doesn't matter if they haven't done it since or that they will admit it freely if questioned.

vajaradakini wrote:Why would it be wrong to report them. They have done something wrong and they should pay for what they have done. It doesn't matter if they haven't done it since or that they will admit it freely if questioned.

I agree they should be reported but there is a problem. The victim will not cooperate with the authorities because the victim is being instructed (intimidated is a better word) by her own father to keep it quiet. His reasoning is the abuser confessed, asked forgiveness, and repented, so he needs not be reported (via Matthew 18:15-17). He believes it would only give rise to something that has been taken care of already. Where he and I disagree is whether or not it has been dealt with. He states it has. I say it has not. I am just trying to get the thoughts of other people.

I don't believe a known child abuser should ever have access to children. Should we judge him, probably not, but should we put our children at risk? I would never put my children at risk.

And what is being done for the child? Abuse such as this scars a child for the rest of their life. Parents who do not stick up for their children grow apart from them.
Children who wait many years and finally tell their parents that their closest friend raped them, there Parents never get over it, they never forgive themselves, and this parent wants to sweep it under the carpet!
I am sorry I am only a new Christian, and being a victim of Sexual child abuse I find it very offensive. I know many women with similar experiences to me, and they go through hell every day. I don't have the faith to not get angary when some parent sweeps such a incident under the carpet. I don't like to think about some little girl growing up with the pain that I had to grow up with, because it never goes away, they don't have confidence, they are often depressed, and if they are lucky they can live with it.

Nothing has been done for the victim. She was six and seven years old when she was abused and she is 21 now. She has yet to receive any counseling. Why? Her father has convinced her she does not need it because he counseled her when it happened and he is a minister. When she told me about the abuse she said I was the first person she had ever seen get a bit angry about it. Everyone else was concerned with the abuser. It remains that way today because of the abuser's position in the church and his reputation. It would be a very big blow to the community and the church's rep if this ever got out. I personally believe it will eventually get out so damage will be done. I just do not know what to do. I do not want to go against the wishes of the victim and report the guy but at the same time I know it is her father speaking through her and he is only concerned with his rep at this point. I believe he knows he messed up but cannot bring himself to fix it so he justifies it by saying too much time has passed.

I don't think much of a church who puts the rights and thinks about the well being of the abuser before the victim, and to allow him to take part in the childrens ministry is totally out of order, they have a responsibility to the children above all, and that is to protect.
reminds me of those big churches who defend their priests for raping little boys an transfers them somewhere quiet.
A father counseling his daughter is like a DR treating his child.
She is not free to say what she feels, and if she can not say it, then it will stay bottled up. therefor she will never fully recover, there will be times she thinks she is, but then POW! and this will happen throughout life.

To me this seems like a coverup, it is not truth.
You need to decide if you can stay part of a church that covers up with such a lie.

Has the abuser stopped?

Deborah wrote:I don't think much of a church who puts the rights and thinks about the well being of the abuser before the victim, and to allow him to take part in the childrens ministry is totally out of order, they have a responsibility to the children above all, and that is to protect.
reminds me of those big churches who defend their priests for raping little boys an transfers them somewhere quiet.
A father counseling his daughter is like a DR treating his child.
She is not free to say what she feels, and if she can not say it, then it will stay bottled up. therefor she will never fully recover, there will be times she thinks she is, but then POW! and this will happen throughout life.

To me this seems like a coverup, it is not truth.
You need to decide if you can stay part of a church that covers up with such a lie.

Oh no, I am not a member of that church. Neither is the victim. Her father is the pastor at another church and she attends church with him. I have had some heated discussions with the father about this. Of course, his response is "do not judge" and it is wrong to bring this up after it has been taken care of. I disagree with him but until the victim agrees to go forward there is nothing I can do.

Mastermind wrote:Has the abuser stopped?

Are you asking has he stopped abusing the victim? Yes. Has he stopped abusing kids in general? There is no way for me to know without trying to dig up dirt. I know he did touch other kids before he was caught. When asked about other kids he says something like, "I am not sure who else I abused but if they say I did, I probably did." I take that to mean he is not going to disclose any other kids unless they come forward. This man also states he was called to minister to children. He was the youth minister at this church until recently when he resigned. He was also a missionary to Indonesia for a few years. He still has access to children at the church because his wife and sister work in the children's department. The head of the department knows and has no problem with it. Basically, they believe he is "cured." He may be but odds are he is not.

sofalogic wrote:I agree they should be reported but there is a problem. The victim will not cooperate with the authorities because the victim is being instructed (intimidated is a better word) by her own father to keep it quiet. His reasoning is the abuser confessed, asked forgiveness, and repented, so he needs not be reported (via Matthew 18:15-17). He believes it would only give rise to something that has been taken care of already. Where he and I disagree is whether or not it has been dealt with. He states it has. I say it has not. I am just trying to get the thoughts of other people.

The abuser cannot simply confess to god and be cleared in this world. If this guy was truly sorry for what he's done then he would be ready to go to jail for it as that is where he belongs. It seems to convenient that he's ready confess to god in front of others to gain their sympathy so that he does not have to go to jail for something that he has done wrong.

If she was a minor I'd say report it no matter what. But since she's 21 she's certainly an adult and must be treated as one by you even if her father doesn't.

On that note however, since she is still under his mental influence, is she still living at home or does she have some free will or freedom of movement? No matter what, I'd do some research, and find a counselor (a true Christian organization!) and urge her to go. Take her there yourself. Ideally, check with a local crisis pregnancy center, they deal with sexual abuse often and have resources already at hand. I personally don't feel very qualified to give you much more advice than that which I've said. People who work in this field daily are much more knowledgable in the nuances involved in this situation. Hopefully you are not in a small town.

I personally believe that the parents of the children should be warned, if this guy is still around their children. You can't keep people in the dark, they expect and trust their children will be safe. maybe they are safe, but the chance should never be taken that they are not.
I can say that from experience because the man who raped me as a child had done it before, but nobody bothered to warn my Parents, and he was never reported.

vajaradakini wrote:

sofalogic wrote:I agree they should be reported but there is a problem. The victim will not cooperate with the authorities because the victim is being instructed (intimidated is a better word) by her own father to keep it quiet. His reasoning is the abuser confessed, asked forgiveness, and repented, so he needs not be reported (via Matthew 18:15-17). He believes it would only give rise to something that has been taken care of already. Where he and I disagree is whether or not it has been dealt with. He states it has. I say it has not. I am just trying to get the thoughts of other people.

The abuser cannot simply confess to god and be cleared in this world. If this guy was truly sorry for what he's done then he would be ready to go to jail for it as that is where he belongs. It seems to convenient that he's ready confess to god in front of others to gain their sympathy so that he does not have to go to jail for something that he has done wrong.

Deborah wrote:I personally believe that the parents of the children should be warned, if this guy is still around their children. You can't keep people in the dark, they expect and trust their children will be safe. maybe they are safe, but the chance should never be taken that they are not.
I can say that from experience because the man who raped me as a child had done it before, but nobody bothered to warn my Parents, and he was never reported.

I agree with both vajaradakini and Deborah's points. I still believe though that the crisis pregnancy center counselors could best go about helping you. The victim needs to have access to third party counseling to get her healing, to see she must speak up, and give her the emotional support she'll require during the fall out. The counselors can inform you of the best way to protect the victim and yourself, as well as the 'how to' in regards to telling the parents at his church and elsewhere. If you go it alone, they probably will band behind him and against you. You must have the legal and moral high ground before making any accusations or the children will still be in danger. It sounds like a strange sort of church to purposefully be started to shelter him.

Deborah wrote:I personally believe that the parents of the children should be warned, if this guy is still around their children. You can't keep people in the dark, they expect and trust their children will be safe. maybe they are safe, but the chance should never be taken that they are not.
I can say that from experience because the man who raped me as a child had done it before, but nobody bothered to warn my Parents, and he was never reported.

I'm so sorry for your pain and all you had had to have gone through! I forgot all about the following until I reread your post.

When my daughter was about 7 or so, I was at a party, she was sleeping/watching tv on the floor in the bedroom of the homeowners child. At one point I realized that the most drunk guy, was missing. Knowing the bathroom was near the children I went to check on them. He was on the laying on the floor next to her in a way that made me very suspicious and angry I chased him out of the room, made sure she was alright and went back to the group. I kept my eye on him for the rest of the time that I stayed (not much longer). I found out the next day that he had woken her up, had his hand inside the sleeping bag on the pretext that his hands were cold, was kissing her and he had already touched her crotch. He was probably ready to head for her zipper when I walked in. I was livid!!!! I called to cops and reported him. It went to court, we 'won', kind of, in that he was on probation for two years and will always carry that on his record. It was a time of living hell, although short lived for us. The DFS coming regularly to ensure she hadn't gotten into anymore 'situations' like either she had instigated it or it tainted her to want more (but I understood that this really was for her protection, many parents are the cause, continue to place the child in danger, or sit back), the homeowner accusing me and her of lying, all sorts of things. But I know it helped my daughter to speak out about it to the authorities, to know he had 'paid' for his crime and most importantly that it may have helped protect some other child. She's 17 now and every once in a blue moon she'll mention it, but not often.

I've always been a careful parent. We've been on our own since she was two, I don't date and so I was appalled that I had had the audacity to place her in that situation. I wasn't drinking though the others were -- I thought it was ok since they had a child close to her age (that that man actually babysitted for regularly) whom she played with til bedtime.

Also, we are called to obey the civil laws of the land in which we reside. I can't think of the verses right now, but Biblically this guy still needs to be brought to the civil courts. Go to your Bible and find the relevant scriptures to augment your case when you next speak with her.

Do you have a concordance? What version of the Bible does she use? You can go here and search http://bible.gospelcom.net/ I'm searching but so far no luck, had some close but not the scripture(s) I have in mind