Evidence for God from Science

Here is an intersting bible study web site — just cancel signing in twice and then look over the Greek online Study program - any one seen this one before?

http://www.greekbiblestudy.org/gnt/main ... ntent=true
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First I've seen it. Looks like a great idea. I couldn't see what Greek Text they are using however, which would be good to know.

They are using Tischendorf, Canuckster. It's better than the TC, and better than W&H, but still to be taken with a grain of salt. Tischendorf put too much emphasis on Codex Sinaiticus (abbreviated with the hebrew Aleph), if i recall correctly. I think I read in the help file that they are trying to get permission to use the NA27, but that may be from another page I was looking at.

Regardless, it looks to be a pretty good tool. Thanks for the link, BW.

If you want to read an online version of the NA27/UBS4 complete with parsing, I would suggest

http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/ ... pters.html

It's all Greek. No English, and very little search capability, but for a quick reference--especially with regard to parsing issues--it is outstanding. And hey . . . it's the NA27! I think you can download it to your computer, too. Not sure.

When it comes to the Greek New Testament, people should be using NA27 or nothing. It helps if you have the printed edition with the text critical notes, and Metzger's accompanying commentary.

It helps only helps to have the printed edition if you can read the aparatus

That said, I have both an NA27 and the Receptus, along with Metzger. I rely heavily on the NA27, of course, but there are instances where I think they have it wrong. And that's the beauty of Metzger - he will admit that there are some decisions that are very split.

Of course, the vast majority of Christians don't read Greek, and of the ones who do, most are unfamiliar with TC, and of those that are, you are split into two camps: those who agree with the established canons and those who think it's all rather silly. Like the evolution debate, the critics of the Canons are labeled wackos and nobody gives them any serious consideration. It doesn't help that their rhetoric is SO strong (KJV ONLY THE NIV IS SATAN'S BIBLE!!1!!1!11), but that's all beside the point. I haven't seen much honest discussion between the two groups.

For the record, I think the Canons provide a great framework. I'm not a KJV only guy, nor am I a Receptus guy. How anybody could be after studying the history, I just don't know

Jac3510 wrote:It helps only helps to have the printed edition if you can read the aparatus

No one incapable of reading the NA27 apparatus criticus should be bothering to read a Greek New Testament in the first place.

That said, I have both an NA27 and the Receptus, along with Metzger. I rely heavily on the NA27, of course, but there are instances where I think they have it wrong. And that's the beauty of Metzger - he will admit that there are some decisions that are very split.

I agree totally. I find that Metzger's commentary is invaluable. I bought NA27 and Metzger together, because I didn't see the point of NA27 without Metzger.

If you're a Libronix user like myself, then you would have been amazed and disappointed that the NA27 which comes standard in such packages as the Silver Scholar's Library (which I have), doesn't contain the apparatus criticus. You have to purchase the Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible to obtain the apparatus, which is very annoying since out of the entire work I would only use NA27, the morphologically tagged Septuaginta, the CCAT LXX database, and the Hebrew/Aramaic-English Lexicon of the Old Testament (though I'm saving for the HALOT/BDAG bundle). Incredibly, after all that I still have to purchase Metzger separately. I wrote to Logos objecting to this annoying packaging of their products, but never received a reply.

No one incapable of reading the NA27 apparatus criticus should be bothering to read a Greek New Testament in the first place.

For actual study purposes, I would carefully agree. But I only just got into the aparatus myself a year ago, and I've been reading the GNT for two years prior to that. While my reading the last year has been more fruitful (I've found places I disagree with NA27), even just being able to read the GNT with the variants the editors have chosen has been absolutely invaluable. If not for actual word-for-word study purposes, then it is certainly true for at least better clarity.

The illustration I always use is this: reading the Bible in Greek is like watching a 52" high-def flat screen TV vs. a 9" black and white. Same picture, but MUCH better clarity.

I agree totally. I find that Metzger's commentary is invaluable. I bought NA27 and Metzger together, because I didn't see the point of NA27 without Metzger.

Again, for a very detailed, analytical study (i.e., preparing papers and such), I absolutely agree. Heck, I keep Wallace and Baur beside me as well, and my TNDT is on the shelf on the other side of the room :p

If you're a Libronix user like myself, then you would have been amazed and disappointed that the NA27 which comes standard in such packages as the Silver Scholar's Library (which I have), doesn't contain the apparatus criticus. You have to purchase the Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible to obtain the apparatus, which is very annoying since out of the entire work I would only use NA27, the morphologically tagged Septuaginta, the CCAT LXX database, and the Hebrew/Aramaic-English Lexicon of the Old Testament (though I'm saving for the HALOT/BDAG bundle). Incredibly, after all that I still have to purchase Metzger separately. I wrote to Logos objecting to this annoying packaging of their products, but never received a reply.

I just went through the new sales pitch for Libronix, and I must say I'm very impressed, especially with the new search features. The new diagramming module is absolutely amazing. I'm going to examine Accordance and BibleWorks before I make a decision on which to purchase, though. My problem with all of them is that for the money they ask you to pay, no one is really providing a complete library. Lot's of great stuff in all of them, but they are all missing something

As for the issue you brought up, it so happens my Greek prof is a Libronix user, and the Libronix development people said that if sees a need in the program, then to send them an email and they would see what they could do to get it added to the program. I will definitely bring this up, because he would like to use the program to teach TC. Maybe they'll get it in there . . .

Sigh. This is what I get for doing my degree in the early 1980's.

I'm already antiquated and old .......

Haha - that's one of the reasons I've been taking my time about getting into software. They day I make my purchase, something new will come out. That said, Logos has made some absolutely amazing leaps forward in the technology in general, and the bigger thing is that they have opened new doors for further development. The same can't be said for BibleWorks or AcCordance.

I mentioned Tyndale Theological Seminary before. You can take 4 years of both Greek and Hebrew (including TC) via correspondance from them for something like $100 a class. Not accredited, and you may not even get a degree, but the information itself is worth it. I'll be doing that for one calendar year after I finish up at LRU. I want to see if I can get three or four semesters worth of Hebrew in before I transfer up to Trinity in IL. God willing, of course.

Jac3510 wrote:For actual study purposes, I would carefully agree. But I only just got into the aparatus myself a year ago, and I've been reading the GNT for two years prior to that. While my reading the last year has been more fruitful (I've found places I disagree with NA27), even just being able to read the GNT with the variants the editors have chosen has been absolutely invaluable. If not for actual word-for-word study purposes, then it is certainly true for at least better clarity.

The illustration I always use is this: reading the Bible in Greek is like watching a 52" high-def flat screen TV vs. a 9" black and white. Same picture, but MUCH better clarity.

Yes, I agree with that. What irks me is when you hear someone get up and say 'Now in the original Greek it says...', when you know they're simply using Strong's Concordance. It irks me even more when someone who can actually read Greek gets up and says the same thing, using only the Receptus or Wilson's Diaglott (which at least has a layman's level apparatus). But for someone who can read Greek and who is using NA27 to get up and say that, would really get my goat. People who want to use the standard Greek text properly need to understand the apparatus, and they need to understand the decisions which have been made, and why. When they do, they won't get up and say silly things like 'In the original Greek it says'.

Again, for a very detailed, analytical study (i.e., preparing papers and such), I absolutely agree. Heck, I keep Wallace and Baur beside me as well, and my TNDT is on the shelf on the other side of the room :p

I use the two of them just for personal Bible study.

I just went through the new sales pitch for Libronix, and I must say I'm very impressed, especially with the new search features. The new diagramming module is absolutely amazing. I'm going to examine Accordance and BibleWorks before I make a decision on which to purchase, though. My problem with all of them is that for the money they ask you to pay, no one is really providing a complete library. Lot's of great stuff in all of them, but they are all missing something

I know what you mean, but I bought the Scholar's Silver Edition (on a five month payment plan, which broke up the cost comfortably), and I didn't find myself missing that much. Sure, I have to get BDAG/HALOT, SESB, and Metzger, but there's a huge amount in the basic package (including a massive amount of archaeological data). After that everything I purchase is just luxury. Mind you, I have purchased quite a lot since. This is a very tidy package, and I've found it incredibly valuable. Other good purchases have been:

* Studies In The Dead Sea Scrolls

* Understanding the Bible and Its World Collection

* The Apostolic Fathers in Greek and English (3 Editions, with Morphology)

* The Mishnah A New Translation by Jacob Neusner

* Jewish Sects of the New Testament Era

* The Rabinnic Messiah

* Light from the Ancient East

* The Vocabulary of the Greek Testament (Moulton & Milligan)

As for the issue you brought up, it so happens my Greek prof is a Libronix user, and the Libronix development people said that if sees a need in the program, then to send them an email and they would see what they could do to get it added to the program. I will definitely bring this up, because he would like to use the program to teach TC. Maybe they'll get it in there . . .

I think an email from your Greek professor would carry a lot more weight than my email did.