Evidence for God from Science

Fortigurn wrote:

YLTYLT wrote:

Fortigurn wrote:Not at all, they could well have been saved at one point, but they fell from grace.

Fortigurn,
Now I understand our disagreement. It is about eternal security.

No, it's also about whether or not we have to repent in order to be saved, whether we are saved by grace alone, or by faith alone, or by something else alone.

Which essentially means the same thing. By your statement above, You believe that we are saved by grace but after that we need to work to keep it. This IS about whether are not we are eternaly secure in our salvation, no matter what words you use to describe it. But of course if we have to work to keep the salvation that was a gift to us, then it was never really a gift to begin with, was it? And it would not really be grace. Once a person is born into a family they are always a part of that family (always saved) even though they may fall out of fellowship with members of the family.

YLTYLT wrote:Which essentially means the same thing. By your statement above, You believe that we are saved by grace but after that we need to work to keep it.

No, the whole point is that we need grace specifically because our works are not sufficient to obtain or keep our salvation. We don't just need grace as a one of 'payment', we need grace every day.

This IS about whether are not we are eternaly secure in our salvation, no matter what words you use to describe it.

I thought we were talking about 'grace alone, faith alone', 'Go Sox!', and other unBiblical phrases.

But of course if we have to work to keep the salvation that was a gift to us, then it was never really a gift to begin with, was it? And it would not really be grace.

This is not about working to keep the salvation that was a gift to us. It's about whether or not we choose to keep or reject the gift.

Once a person is born into a family they are always a part of that family (always saved) even though they may fall out of fellowship with members of the family.

This is a false analogy because these are not the terms on which salvation is extended to us. What you are telling me in very clear terms is that you believe (as so many Evangelicals do), that you can be saved with an understanding of 'the gospel' (whatever that means to you), at a single point in time, without repentance or a change of life, and that nothing you do or think subsequently will affect that salvation. I don't find this revealed in Scripture.