Evidence for God from Science

Hi! Just when you thought it was safe to log onto the forum again, and here I am, asking another wierd question.

Okay, so, Adam and Eve are in the Garden of Eden, right? And since they are in perfect and sinless fellowship with God, the practising of virtues is in abudance:

Humility (modesty)
Kindness (admiration)
Forgiveness (composure)
Diligence (zeal/integrity/Labor)
Charity (giving)
Temperance (self-restraint)
Chastity (purity)
Truth
Belief
Obedience

And everytime they committed one of those virtues, nothing much happened. They never (presumably) got any more godly. But then they sin and BAM! They plunge into the sin deep end and because of that ONE SIN every human being sins like a cat meows... ouch! Sin packs an extremely powerful punch. So that begs the question:

Why did the one sin from Adam and Eve have such a profound effect on Human Nature from then on?

This is not a question of 'sin is sin', it is a question of questioning why one sin would cause us to sin my instinct in the future, and why virtuous actions do not do the same.

Here is my answer:

Okay, so first of all what is a sin? This is what I tend to think of sin as:


Gluttony
Greed
Envy
Wrath
Sloth
Lust
Pride
Untruth
Disbelief
Disobedience

Any action, inaction, word or thought inspired by these motives is a SIN. It caused us to miss the mark with God.


If you think about it, taking the fruit from the tree was the ULTIMATE SIN:

They were gluttonus in that they saw the fruit was delicious to eat.
They were greedy in that they wanted as much knowledge as God.
They were envious of God's knowledge.
Taking the fruit was an act of rebellious behavoir.
They were slothful; they wanted knowledge fast without any hard work, and they doubted God's love for them and what's best for them.
They had a lust for the knowledge in that they put it in front of God.
They were prideful in that they felt they were good enough to be equal to God.
They believed in the untruth of Satan.
They disbelieved God's Word.
And finally, they disobeyed God's only command.

My conclusion is that that one sin was the ultimate sin because it drew on all of the sinful motives: that is why it had such an impact on how we live our lives (i.e. wrought with sinful behavoir). Likewise Satan's sin caused him to sin over and over again in the future:

His rebellion against God was wrathful, he was envious of God's position, he was greedy, gluttonous and lusting for power, he failed to love God with all his heart (Sloth), he disbelieved God would always win (promoting disbelief and untruth) and finally the rebellion itself was an act of disobedience.

What do you think? Would you give the same answer as me or a slightly different one? Or a completely different one? I'm interested in hearing your views.

Hi Harry,

Here's a different view:

It is generally taught that Adam and Eve were spiritually perfect immediately after their creation, seeing that it says, "And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good…" (Gen. 1:31). Never mind the fact that even poisonous snakes were also "very good." Of course everything God made was "good." It was, in fact, even "perfect"—perfect, that is, for the purpose for which it was created. But did our first parents have perfect and good spiritual character of heart when God completed them? Absolutely not! Far from it! They were as carnal-minded as any two people who have ever lived. The Scriptures show us that Eve committed every known category of sin there is, before she ever ate of the forbidden fruit.

"…for I had not known [Gk: 'would not have known'] lust, except the law had said, "Thou shalt not covet" (Rom. 7:7).

So lusting and coveting that which is not legal, is a sin. Before a man ever steals, or ever commits adultery with another man's wife, he first covets, and that is a sin and the precursor to additional sins

But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth FROM THE HEART; and they defile the man.
For out of THE HEART proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

THREE CATEGORIES OF SIN

the lust of the FLESH,

the lust of the EYES,

and the pride of LIFE,

Simply and unarguably, Jesus states as a fact, that all evil thoughts and sins proceed OUT OF THE HEART.

Now, with all that said, let's prove once and for all that Mother Eve and Adam were not spiritually perfect in any way shape or form, BEFORE they actually ate of the forbidden fruit.

"And when the woman saw that the tree was GOOD FOR FOOD… Gen. 3:6:
"…lust of the FLESH…" (I John 2:15)

and that it was PLEASANT TO THE EYES… Gen. 3:6:
"…lust of the EYES…" (I John 2:15)

and a tree to be DESIRED TO MAKE ONE WISE Gen. 3:6:
"…the PRIDE OF LIFE" (I John 2;15)

Eve committed EVERY CATEGORY OF SIN THERE IS IN THE WORLD, before… she actually ate of the forbidden fruit. The question is how? How could she sin before eating of the fruit, if she was perfect?

Peace,
Paul

Pierac wrote:Hi Harry,

Here's a different view:

It is generally taught that Adam and Eve were spiritually perfect immediately after their creation, seeing that it says, "And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good…" (Gen. 1:31). Never mind the fact that even poisonous snakes were also "very good." Of course everything God made was "good." It was, in fact, even "perfect"—perfect, that is, for the purpose for which it was created. But did our first parents have perfect and good spiritual character of heart when God completed them? Absolutely not! Far from it! They were as carnal-minded as any two people who have ever lived. The Scriptures show us that Eve committed every known category of sin there is, before she ever ate of the forbidden fruit.

"…for I had not known [Gk: 'would not have known'] lust, except the law had said, "Thou shalt not covet" (Rom. 7:7).

So lusting and coveting that which is not legal, is a sin. Before a man ever steals, or ever commits adultery with another man's wife, he first covets, and that is a sin and the precursor to additional sins

But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth FROM THE HEART; and they defile the man.
For out of THE HEART proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

THREE CATEGORIES OF SIN

the lust of the FLESH,

the lust of the EYES,

and the pride of LIFE,

Simply and unarguably, Jesus states as a fact, that all evil thoughts and sins proceed OUT OF THE HEART.

Now, with all that said, let's prove once and for all that Mother Eve and Adam were not spiritually perfect in any way shape or form, BEFORE they actually ate of the forbidden fruit.

"And when the woman saw that the tree was GOOD FOR FOOD… Gen. 3:6:
"…lust of the FLESH…" (I John 2:15)

and that it was PLEASANT TO THE EYES… Gen. 3:6:
"…lust of the EYES…" (I John 2:15)

and a tree to be DESIRED TO MAKE ONE WISE Gen. 3:6:
"…the PRIDE OF LIFE" (I John 2;15)

Eve committed EVERY CATEGORY OF SIN THERE IS IN THE WORLD, before… she actually ate of the forbidden fruit. The question is how? How could she sin before eating of the fruit, if she was perfect?

Peace,
Paul

Good point. I hadn't thought of that.

So the same question stands, just a little further back.

Actually your question has to change! There is not one Sin there is multiple of Sins being committed also if they had sin before the Apple then what do you see is the starting point of Sin?

bizzt wrote:Actually your question has to change! There is not one Sin there is multiple of Sins being committed also if they had sin before the Apple then what do you see is the starting point of Sin?

Apple? What Apple?

Harry12345 wrote:

bizzt wrote:Actually your question has to change! There is not one Sin there is multiple of Sins being committed also if they had sin before the Apple then what do you see is the starting point of Sin?

Apple? What Apple?

Sorry Fruit

quote from you
"If you think about it, taking the fruit from the tree was the ULTIMATE SIN:"

bizzt wrote:

Harry12345 wrote:

bizzt wrote:Actually your question has to change! There is not one Sin there is multiple of Sins being committed also if they had sin before the Apple then what do you see is the starting point of Sin?

Apple? What Apple?

Sorry Fruit

quote from you
"If you think about it, taking the fruit from the tree was the ULTIMATE SIN:"

Well, what is your answer to this 'new question' then?

Harry12345 wrote:

bizzt wrote:

Harry12345 wrote:
Apple? What Apple?

Sorry Fruit

quote from you
"If you think about it, taking the fruit from the tree was the ULTIMATE SIN:"

Well, what is your answer to this 'new question' then?

Actually the question was proposed to you . I will give my answer once you have answered

Okay, why did Adam and Eve sin before they took the fruit? Easy. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to fall from grace and plunge the world into seemingly eternal suffering and strife.

Because Adam and Eve did not have Original Sin, so it took alot of persuasion to be tempted. But the serpent persisted, and Mnkind fell.

Harry12345 wrote:Okay, why did Adam and Eve sin before they took the fruit? Easy. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to fall from grace and plunge the world into seemingly eternal suffering and strife.

Because Adam and Eve did not have Original Sin, so it took alot of persuasion to be tempted. But the serpent persisted, and Mnkind fell.

Are you sure they did not have Original Sin? Speaking of Original Sin what is it?


Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

So my answer to your question "Why did the one sin from Adam and Eve have such a profound effect on Human Nature from then on?"
It didn't!! Sin was already in effect. The question needs to change "Why did the Defiance of Satan have such a profound effect on Humans from then on?"

I think this is the question you need to ask now instead of the First....

I had always thought it was because of the sin of one man. Isn't this what paul was referring to here in Romans 5?
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Awesome thanks YLTYLT.

That I guess would answer your initial question Harry
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

So Sin brought Death...

I guess the next question is where did Sin come Originally? Was it not the defiance of Satan? So with his defiance did he Tempt Eve to Sin. Then I guess Adam being Head of this world had a choice to rebuke the Sin or partake of it....

What do you think?

bizzt wrote:Awesome thanks YLTYLT.

That I guess would answer your initial question Harry
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

So Sin brought Death...

I guess the next question is where did Sin come Originally? Was it not the defiance of Satan? So with his defiance did he Tempt Eve to Sin. Then I guess Adam being Head of this world had a choice to rebuke the Sin or partake of it....

What do you think?

It's okay I guess. But why did that one sin cause humankind to sin thereafter instinctively?

Harry12345 wrote:

bizzt wrote:Awesome thanks YLTYLT.

That I guess would answer your initial question Harry
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

So Sin brought Death...

I guess the next question is where did Sin come Originally? Was it not the defiance of Satan? So with his defiance did he Tempt Eve to Sin. Then I guess Adam being Head of this world had a choice to rebuke the Sin or partake of it....

What do you think?

It's okay I guess. But why did that one sin cause humankind to sin thereafter instinctively?

It brought Death into the World... I think it was allowance of SIN that caused Humankind thereafter to have it. Adam had a choice whether to accept Eve at face value and partake of the Fruit or reject it. Because it was easy and sounded so good he Partook. What if he did not? What if he rejected it?... Anyways in the end the I do not know if the Bible gives us that kind of information.

I am not sure, but the reason that the sin is passed on may have something to do with the blood, where the blood of Adam was passed on to his offspring. And there are verses talking about there is life in the blood. etc..... Just an idea in process....???? Any thoughts?