Evidence for God from Science

I am 21 years old. At age 17 I asked God to fill me with the Holy Spirit. I believed he did. It didn't take much longer than a year to lose my faith. I became deeply interested in science and what scientific evidence had to say about the "possibility" of a God. "If God is real, there should be evidence all around us of Him." That was my thinking. However, instead of finding more of God, I found less and less of Him until my faith turned into a horribly plagueing doubt. I have been tormented with different possibilities ever since. I have tried asking God for help and guidance. I have gone to Him in tears praying for Him to touch me . . . but after enough time with no answers and no feeling of the Holy Spirit . . . I can't help but feel like I'm praying to nothing. Or if there is a God . . that He just doesn't want me. So.

1. Am I saved even though I am tortured with disbelief.

2. What, if God is there and listening, can I do to find Him again?

l4ur4 wrote:I am 21 years old. At age 17 I asked God to fill me with the Holy Spirit. I believed he did. It didn't take much longer than a year to lose my faith. I became deeply interested in science and what scientific evidence had to say about the "possibility" of a God. "If God is real, there should be evidence all around us of Him." That was my thinking. However, instead of finding more of God, I found less and less of Him until my faith turned into a horribly plagueing doubt. I have been tormented with different possibilities ever since. I have tried asking God for help and guidance. I have gone to Him in tears praying for Him to touch me . . . but after enough time with no answers and no feeling of the Holy Spirit . . . I can't help but feel like I'm praying to nothing. Or if there is a God . . that He just doesn't want me. So.

1. Am I saved even though I am tortured with disbelief.

2. What, if God is there and listening, can I do to find Him again?

l4ur4,
If you have truly put your faith and trust in Jesus for eternal life then you are saved.

I'm surprised that the beautiful and intricate design of nature, or the magnificance of Space didn't help you. Maybe it did but you just needed something more. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking you need more. Was your spiritual experience just an experience, or did you truly believe with your heart that Christ came to earth to die for your sins and give you eternal life?

Take care
FFC

You do have to be careful of what you listen to. Do you put more stock in what man says, or what God says?

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Heres a link you may find interesting. Do you think this beauty arose from nothing or did God create it.

fractals

Don't forget, our minds are at enmity with God. Our hearts, evil and desperately wicked.

Faith is paramount to God. He created all things by Faith and considers it most Holy.

We can put our faith in anything. That is actually what Satan would have us do, anything and everything that opposes the truth.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Along the lines of what FFC said, let me just provide you with this little anecdote. This was written by the famous evangelist J. Wilbur Chapman, as recorded in Sword of the Lord, October 28, 1988, under the title, "A Conversation Between J. Wilbur Chapman and D.L. Moody." It is available online here.

• ...I was studying for the ministry, and I heard that D. L. Moody was to preach in Chicago. I went down to hear him. Finally I got into his after-meeting. I shall never forget the thrill that went through me when he came and sat down beside me as an inquirer. He asked me if I was a Christian. I said, "Mr. Moody, I am not sure whether I am a Christian or not."
  
  ...He very kindly took his Bible and opened it at the fifth chapter of John, and the twenty-fourth verse, which reads as follows: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation: but is passed from death unto life."
  
  Suppose you had read that for the first time, wouldn't you think it was wonderful? I read it through, and he said, "Do you believe it?"
  
  I said, "Yes."
  
  "Do you accept it?"
  
  I said, "Yes."
  
  "Well, are you a Christian?"
  
  "Mr. Moody, I sometimes think I am, and sometimes I am afraid I am not."
  
  He very kindly said, "Read it again."
  
  So I read it again: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
  
  Then he said, "Do you believe it?"
  
  I said, "Yes."
  
  "Do you receive Him?"
  
  I said. "Yes."
  
  "Well," he said, "are you a Christian?"
  
  I just started to say over again that sometimes I was afraid I was not, when the only time in all the years I knew him and loved him, he was sharp with me. He turned on me with his eyes flashing and said, "See here, whom are you doubting?"
  
  Then I saw it for the first time, that when I was afraid I was not a Christian I was doubting God's Word. I read it again with my eyes overflowing with tears.
  
  Since that day I have had many sorrows and many joys, but never have I doubted for a moment that I was a Christian, because God said it.

Hope that helps. God bless

Jac3510 wrote:Along the lines of what FFC said, let me just provide you with this little anecdote. This was written by the famous evangelist J. Wilbur Chapman, as recorded in Sword of the Lord, October 28, 1988, under the title, "A Conversation Between J. Wilbur Chapman and D.L. Moody." It is available online here.

• ...I was studying for the ministry, and I heard that D. L. Moody was to preach in Chicago. I went down to hear him. Finally I got into his after-meeting. I shall never forget the thrill that went through me when he came and sat down beside me as an inquirer. He asked me if I was a Christian. I said, "Mr. Moody, I am not sure whether I am a Christian or not."
  
  ...He very kindly took his Bible and opened it at the fifth chapter of John, and the twenty-fourth verse, which reads as follows: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation: but is passed from death unto life."
  
  Suppose you had read that for the first time, wouldn't you think it was wonderful? I read it through, and he said, "Do you believe it?"
  
  I said, "Yes."
  
  "Do you accept it?"
  
  I said, "Yes."
  
  "Well, are you a Christian?"
  
  "Mr. Moody, I sometimes think I am, and sometimes I am afraid I am not."
  
  He very kindly said, "Read it again."
  
  So I read it again: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
  
  Then he said, "Do you believe it?"
  
  I said, "Yes."
  
  "Do you receive Him?"
  
  I said. "Yes."
  
  "Well," he said, "are you a Christian?"
  
  I just started to say over again that sometimes I was afraid I was not, when the only time in all the years I knew him and loved him, he was sharp with me. He turned on me with his eyes flashing and said, "See here, whom are you doubting?"
  
  Then I saw it for the first time, that when I was afraid I was not a Christian I was doubting God's Word. I read it again with my eyes overflowing with tears.
  
  Since that day I have had many sorrows and many joys, but never have I doubted for a moment that I was a Christian, because God said it.

Hope that helps. God bless

Wow, "The Sword of The Lord". I used to read that when I first got saved. A little on the legalistic side but full of some good solid teaching.

That was an excellent illustration, Jac. Years ago God impressed on me as a Christian this same thing when I would doubt an explicit promise in His word. Only with me being a born pessimist the rebuke I heard in my head was "are you calling me a liar?". I realized I was and I still have to ask myself that same question every once in awhile to keep myself in check.

How could any of us ever dare to doubt God?

Yeah, that little story one one of the last little tidbits that thoroughly sealed my understanding of the grace of God and salvation. I remember back when I used to doubt my own salvation. I had thoroughly bought into such ideas as the final perseverance of the saints and the idea that Christians can't live in habitual sin, so whenever I honestly looked at my "performance," I couldn't help but wonder, "Have I done enough? What about all these sins? And what about this doubt? Lord, if there is any way that I'm not saved, please save me now!" Like you said, I didn't realize I was doubting God.

Most people that I have met simply don't understand that they really can know with absolute certainty that they are saved without any reference to their behavior.

Jac3510 wrote:Yeah, that little story one one of the last little tidbits that thoroughly sealed my understanding of the grace of God and salvation. I remember back when I used to doubt my own salvation. I had thoroughly bought into such ideas as the final perseverance of the saints and the idea that Christians can't live in habitual sin, so whenever I honestly looked at my "performance," I couldn't help but wonder, "Have I done enough? What about all these sins? And what about this doubt? Lord, if there is any way that I'm not saved, please save me now!" Like you said, I didn't realize I was doubting God.

Most people that I have met simply don't understand that they really can know with absolute certainty that they are saved without any reference to their behavior.

I agree. Measuring your salvation by your performance can be a very frustrating thing. I remember asking God to save me several times after He actually saved me...I guess I thought maybe it didn't take the first time.

Thank God He is faithful even when we are not.

The anecdote from Moody was very helpful. I sometimes struggle with my past doubts in light of Hebrews 6:4-6, when I kind of lost my faith for a few days. It's helpful to keep looking to the cross and remember God's promises to ALL who accept him. Thank you for posting.

This story has always been touching to me:

Billiard parlor evangel

But maybe it is because I used to spend a lot of time in the pool hall. But it is still a great story. It gives some simple but logical evidence for the existence of God, and the need for a Saviour. (as well as using scripture.)

Wow ffc, thank you so much. I sometimes have doubt that i'm save. I truly believe that Jesus died for me on the cross for my sins as John 3:16 say I HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. If i doubt it, i would tell God's a liar. That is so simple and sooo true. Thank you so much , i will never forget that lesson. GOD BLESS YOU

l4ur4 wrote:I am 21 years old. At age 17 I asked God to fill me with the Holy Spirit. I believed he did. It didn't take much longer than a year to lose my faith. I became deeply interested in science and what scientific evidence had to say about the "possibility" of a God. "If God is real, there should be evidence all around us of Him." That was my thinking. However, instead of finding more of God, I found less and less of Him until my faith turned into a horribly plagueing doubt. I have been tormented with different possibilities ever since. I have tried asking God for help and guidance. I have gone to Him in tears praying for Him to touch me . . . but after enough time with no answers and no feeling of the Holy Spirit . . . I can't help but feel like I'm praying to nothing. Or if there is a God . . that He just doesn't want me. So.

1. Am I saved even though I am tortured with disbelief.

2. What, if God is there and listening, can I do to find Him again?

Salvation is gotten in only one way:

Salvation is a FREE GIFT. It is not gained by feelings or asking
God for anything. It is not gained by prayer. It is not gained by
good works. It is not gained or attained or kept by feelings or
obedience to God.

Feelings, obedience, fruit, works should all RESULT from
salvation, but they are NOT a necessary consequence of salvation.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who believe in Jesus Christ
for everlasting life. The Holy Spirit is a PERMANENT possession
of the saved person. He will NEVER leave you ever, even if
you want Him to. BUT God does not give the Holy Spirit to
anyone who has not first received the free gift of eternal life.

I cannot say whether you ever believed in Jesus for eternal life.
Unless you believed that by simply believing in Jesus you were
saved eternally no matter what you ever do in the future you
did not receive eternal life.

Unless you believe what God says, understanding what He
says, that is, knowing the meaning that He intended, not just
Anything you think He said, you have not believed Him for
everlasting life.

Everlasting life means life that is everlasting. Many professing
Christians think that they believe in Christ for life, a conditional
life which is conditioned upon their continued faith, obedience,
works, fruit, etc. This is NOT believing in Him for eternal life.

The nature of saving faith can be easily seen in the story of the
woman at the well of Sychar, John 4:

5 So He came to a city of Samaria which is called Sychar, near the plot of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. 6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied from His journey, sat thus by the well. It was about the sixth hour. 7 A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, "Give Me a drink." 8 For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. 9 Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, "How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?" For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans. 10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." 11 The woman said to Him, "Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then do You get that living water? 12 "Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?" 13 Jesus answered and said to her, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." 15 The woman said to Him, "Sir, give me this water, that I may not thirst, nor come here to draw." 16 Jesus said to her, "Go, call your husband, and come here." 17 The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You have well said, 'I have no husband,' 18 "for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; in that you spoke truly." 19 The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 "Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship." 21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 "You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." 25 The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming" (who is called Christ). "When He comes, He will tell us all things." 26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am He."

This interchange is most important. Note that two things must be understood in the
saving proposition. First, WHAT the gift of God is: Eternal Life.

Second, WHO the guarantor of eternal life is: Jesus Christ.

To the one who BELIEVES in Jesus Christ FOR this gift, the gift is given.

But to receive it, one must understand and believe he has it.

Another vital point is the contrast that Jesus Christ makes between drinking
physical water, which must be contined to be drunk for one to not thirst again
and drinking the Living Water which He offers in the Gospel.

To not thirst physically, one must drink and drink and drink and continue
to drink physical water to quench his thirst. After a time one has drunk
water, he thirsts again, and he must then drink again to quench his thirst.

BUT this is NOT the case with the Living Water. One drink of this
Living Water is sufficient to produce everlasting life. One drinks of
the Living Water by believing the life giving proposition that Jesus
is the Christ: 1 John 5:1 “Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God,”
John 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.”

How do we KNOW that by taking ONE DRINK, (believing in Jesus Christ for
everlasting life at a point in time = punctiliar faith) one is saved eternally, and
his salvation is not conditioned upon continued faith? Because Christ that the
one who drinks of the Living Water WILL NEVER THRIST.

Every gospel promise says the same thing. Never come into judgment!
Never thirst again! Passed from death to life. Has everlasting life.
Will not perish! Justified from ALL things.

Salvation is through faith and faith alone. Faith cannot be mixed with
works of any kind for salvation.

Works, fruits, obedience, should all be the result of salvation. The basis
of all these is first salvation.

One is not saved by saying the “sinners prayer.” Nor by “receiving Jesus
in his heart.” Nor by receiving Jesus Christ as Lord.

The only way to receive the FREE GIFT is by FAITH alone. Only the
faith which DOES NOT WORK justifies.

Romans 4:5 “but to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,”

The ungodly man is justified (saved) by simply believing, and nothing else.

Unless the free gift is received “without cost,” it is not received at all.

Revelation 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.

Biblicist "Believe in Christ for Eternal Life"

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
So, are you bearing fruit? Are you striving to do what is pleasing in the sight of the Lord? Please note that this is a result of salvation not what you do to get saved.

Romans 10:9 - If you confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
God is making a promise through Paul. God's promises are trustworthy. So, do you believe God raised him from the dead? Have you confessed that Jesus is Lord?

You have to have faith that God is working in you through the Holy Spirit, and that he hears your prayers.
Hebrews 11:1 - For faith is the assurance of things hoped for, and the conviction of things not seen.
2 Corinthians 5:7 - for we walk by faith, not by sight--

i didn't take the time to read the other people's posts, but here's what i think.
the way i see it, and the way it has been described to me is that if you still believe it you are in "the room called grace", you don't become rejected from it simply because you doubt. you just move closer or farther from God who is on the far end of the room from the entrance. and if science is what you seek to find evidence for God, then keep looking through this website. as much as feelings will do for you, the concrete facts presented on this side help immensely.
so in my opinion, you're still saved. grace covers all, even doubt, so just keep searching and make your faith your own. don't let anyone tell you it has to be a certain way, because in the end it lands with you.
i hope and pray you find your way
-glenn

agapomai wrote:i didn't take the time to read the other people's posts, but here's what i think.
the way i see it, and the way it has been described to me is that if you still believe it you are in "the room called grace", you don't become rejected from it simply because you doubt. you just move closer or farther from God who is on the far end of the room from the entrance. and if science is what you seek to find evidence for God, then keep looking through this website. as much as feelings will do for you, the concrete facts presented on this side help immensely.
so in my opinion, you're still saved. grace covers all, even doubt, so just keep searching and make your faith your own. don't let anyone tell you it has to be a certain way, because in the end it lands with you.
i hope and pray you find your way
-glenn

Hey Glenn, welcome to the boards. I am in overall agreement with your statement. Just a question: how do you define "faith"?

Jac3510 wrote:

agapomai wrote:i didn't take the time to read the other people's posts, but here's what i think.
the way i see it, and the way it has been described to me is that if you still believe it you are in "the room called grace", you don't become rejected from it simply because you doubt. you just move closer or farther from God who is on the far end of the room from the entrance. and if science is what you seek to find evidence for God, then keep looking through this website. as much as feelings will do for you, the concrete facts presented on this side help immensely.
so in my opinion, you're still saved. grace covers all, even doubt, so just keep searching and make your faith your own. don't let anyone tell you it has to be a certain way, because in the end it lands with you.
i hope and pray you find your way
-glenn

Hey Glenn, welcome to the boards. I am in overall agreement with your statement. Just a question: how do you define "faith"?

How can this guy/girl be saved if he/she doubts God and the man whom he has ordained to save us, Jesus? This is not true by any means. For those that didnt make it to the promised land were laid waste in the wilderness because of disobedience/unbelief. You can shout Jesus' name 1 million times and make a confession but it means nothing unless you crucify yourself as Jesus did. Some people are handing out salvation and preaching another Gospel. For if those in times past were dealt with justly when God looked the other way then they would have been annialated.
Acts
17:30 Therefore, although God has overlooked106 such times of ignorance,107 he now commands all people108 everywhere to repent,109 17:31 because he has set110 a day on which he is going to judge the world111 in righteousness, by a man whom he designated,112 having provided proof to everyone by raising113 him from the dead.”
Hebrews
3:17 And against whom was God27 provoked for forty years? Was it not those who sinned, whose dead bodies fell in the wilderness?28 3:18 And to whom did he swear they would never enter into his rest, except those who were disobedient? 3:19 So29 we see that they could not enter because of unbelief.

It seems that some need to go over the First principles of the Gospel. Obedience is prerequisite wheter it be word, thought, or deed.

In Love,
Nick