Evidence for God from Science

Please provide an answer for this most confusing issue that I cannot seem to get around. If the Universe is "finite" does that mean there is a definite end, a limit to where, if possible, you could not travel any further. Is this what is meant by the Universe being "Finite?"

phiver4 wrote:Please provide an answer for this most confusing issue that I cannot seem to get around. If the Universe is "finite" does that mean there is a definite end, a limit to where, if possible, you could not travel any further. Is this what is meant by the Universe being "Finite?"

Perhaps, but truthfully we do not know.
We should focus on trying to travel to the outer limits of our own solar system first,
before seriously pondering these maters.

phiver4 wrote:Please provide an answer for this most confusing issue that I cannot seem to get around. If the Universe is "finite" does that mean there is a definite end, a limit to where, if possible, you could not travel any further. Is this what is meant by the Universe being "Finite?"

Does the universe have a beginning point? If so, it is not infinite.

phiver4 wrote:Please provide an answer for this most confusing issue that I cannot seem to get around. If the Universe is "finite" does that mean there is a definite end, a limit to where, if possible, you could not travel any further. Is this what is meant by the Universe being "Finite?"

I saw a Star Trek movie that had a "barrier"

But on a more serious note; Does it actually matter? If there is an end, to our universe, it is constantly moving further and further out according to Science (the big bang expanding universe). And we as Humans are having a very hard time making it to mars let alone outside of our Universe.

This may not give you the answer you wanted; but bottom line "Why worry about it?"

This entire Universe will be destroyed and made New with the second coming of Christ.

I do not have this "Why Worry" attitude about everything, I recycle, don't litter etc.. We are supposed to be good stewards to this earth after all.

If, you believe in the Big Bang theory, Then yes, the universe does have an end.

There is a finite amount of matter and energy that exists, but as far as anyone knows, the space in which it is suspended goes on forever.

Not quite, according to the theory space and time "unfolded" along with the mater and energy from the Big Bang. The Universe is expanding, and space is a property of the Universe, therefore space is expanding. I doubt once reaching the edge that normal matter could leave beyond the expanding universe.

Also the shape of the Universe is important.
Imagine if you would that the universe is an expanding balloon.
The Universe could be represented by the inside surface of the baloon, except instead of being a two dimentional surface, it is three dimentional.

If this were the case then technically there is no edge of the Universe accessible to any who inhabit it.

You see it's not actually expanding into anything necessarily. Everything in the Universe is of the Universe.
To help put it into perspective another equally valid way of looking at it is to forget expansion all together.

Lets say the components of the Universe are evaporating, everything is shrinking in comparison to the Universe.
If this were so the Universe itself is not expanding. But the result is the same from our perspective.

Thanks BGood, I think I am almost there, along with the help of "Swamper."
Could you please expand (no pun intended) on your balloon analogy, and the idea of the 3rd Dimension. You completely lost me with the last example. Forgive me but my background is in Finance I am finding all this very overwhelming as I try and adapt to this kind of thinking. It took me almost 3 days just to grasp an understanding of just one of the featured articles on this site concerning the Big Bang Theory. Thank you.

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:Not quite, according to the theory space and time "unfolded" along with the mater and energy from the Big Bang. The Universe is expanding, and space is a property of the Universe, therefore space is expanding. I doubt once reaching the edge that normal matter could leave beyond the expanding universe.

Also the shape of the Universe is important.
Imagine if you would that the universe is an expanding balloon.
The Universe could be represented by the inside surface of the baloon, except instead of being a two dimentional surface, it is three dimentional.

If this were the case then technically there is no edge of the Universe accessible to any who inhabit it.

You see it's not actually expanding into anything necessarily. Everything in the Universe is of the Universe.
To help put it into perspective another equally valid way of looking at it is to forget expansion all together.

Lets say the components of the Universe are evaporating, everything is shrinking in comparison to the Universe.
If this were so the Universe itself is not expanding. But the result is the same from our perspective.

JCSx2 wrote:This entire Universe will be destroyed and made New with the second coming of Christ.

It's only another universal magnetic reversal, on excavation day, at exhumation hour,
and the square of every one (1111111111...) is the entire universe (0123456789...)

"..." infinity

G-D

I'm not sure where you are getting "finite" from. But I believe that sometimes when the universe is referred to as finite on godandscience.org it is not talking about a finite size or space, but time. It is saying that the universe had a starting point (when God created it) and that the universe has a time when it will be destroyed. I think it's something about how it is expanding and even if Jesus weren't too come again and end this universe, the universe would eventually be destroyed by something like heat death or something. I can't remember exactly what it is, but I'm pretty sure Rich Deem says in one of his articles that after a certain billion amount of more years the universe is on track to destroy itself.

phiver4 wrote:Please provide an answer for this most confusing issue that I cannot seem to get around. If the Universe is "finite" does that mean there is a definite end, a limit to where, if possible, you could not travel any further. Is this what is meant by the Universe being "Finite?"

It is unknown how far any travel can be made in the "known" universe. It has been estimated by some that there could be as many as one hundred billion galaxies beyond our solar system.

The History Channel ran an episode of their "Universe" series about this very subject. The conclusion was yes the universe is finite and will eventually suffer a heat death. This coincides with other publications about astronomical events e.g. The Big Bang Theory, expansion of the universe etc. that I have read over time.

The known universe- according to many scientists- is not static and is not uncaused. Whatever has a beginning must have an end.

Hopes this helps

gogobuffalo wrote:I'm not sure where you are getting "finite" from. But I believe that sometimes when the universe is referred to as finite on godandscience.org it is not talking about a finite size or space, but time. It is saying that the universe had a starting point (when God created it) and that the universe has a time when it will be destroyed. I think it's something about how it is expanding and even if Jesus weren't too come again and end this universe, the universe would eventually be destroyed by something like heat death or something. I can't remember exactly what it is, but I'm pretty sure Rich Deem says in one of his articles that after a certain billion amount of more years the universe is on track to destroy itself.

Many scientists had originally thought that the universe might be infinite and eternal. However, there was a major problem with the theory. If the universe were infinite, the amount of light falling on the earth would also be infinite (assuming an approximately uniform density of galaxies throughout the universe. The reason for this is that the volume of the universe increases 8-fold with doubling of distance, while the decrease of light is only 4-fold with the doubling of the distance. The result is that the amount of light falling in the earth would double every time the size of the universe is doubled. Therefore, if the universe were infinite, we would not expect the sky to be dark at night. Since the night sky is dark, we know that the universe could not be infinite.

This is just one of Rich's explanation of why the universe is finite and how i deduced that what he meant was an actual end or limit to it.

Ah I see, I hadn't read that. Sorry I wasted your time replying to what was not the issue, haha. Maybe it accomplished some good though, haha . Well, I just think that is one concept where we could never know for sure. I remember when I was a little kid I thought the end of the universe were these cardboard walls and the universe was inside a giant cardboard box. LOL I know that's retarded. I dunno something I just thought of is maybe there is not a limit, like a "wall" to the universe, but maybe once you get past all that there is that the law of phyiscs wouldn't apply anymore so you would travel forward and not go anywhere. Like running forward for an hour, then turning around and realizing that you are in the same place as when you started. Haha I dunno.

phiver4 wrote:Please provide an answer for this most confusing issue that I cannot seem to get around. If the Universe is "finite" does that mean there is a definite end, a limit to where, if possible, you could not travel any further. Is this what is meant by the Universe being "Finite?"

My take on this is simple. The universe we know is not infinite, it will pass away. The universe itself, and sun, and earth, will never pass away, they are eternal, but they will pass away from existing in this state universe.

Usually, the concept of finite, or infinite in science, if I have it right, is strictly based on this temporary universe, and how it's laws work, and how it seems to be working. They assume that into the great beyond, and into the past, to 'predict' these things. A truly futile excercise if the universe we know is temporary.

The universe is indeed finite. It did have a beginning which you can visualize as the big bang or God just creating it and stretching it out as it says in scripture. The expanding universe model I don't agree with but it does not interfere with most beliefs about the nature of reality. What you may find interesting is that time has a limit as well. Time can be looked at in smaller and small parts until you get to a quantum moment. I forget the exact number but a very small part of a second. These little moments are ticking off just as a film ticks off frames. Space itself has a lower limit as well, you can subdivide a distance only so far. Below a certain point it loses location and can appear anywhere in the universe. A very strange thing that quantum mechanics has exposed. But the point I make with this is that we should have comfort in the limits of space (the universe), time in the quantum moment, and distance. This allows us some confidence that as we explore the creation that we see, we will never have to keep searching ever larger and ever small parts. We know very little about God's creation but we are trying to uncover its secrets every day. I can get buried into a good science book and wonder about all of this complexity or I can take a walk in nature and do the same.