Evidence for God from Science

Commentary On The book of Job - I am looking for comments on this interpretation of a second level of communication in the comments of Job's friends. Please respond with any opinions - thanks

Written by Frank Baginski
7/26/07

This version is very preliminary.

The comments in this work are not tested by time or deep research. It may be that all of the ideas presented turn out to be false. Each reader is encouraged to read the scripture for themselves and search their own heart for God's truth.

When I first read The Book of Job I was confused about the friends comments to Job and Job's responses. At times they appeared as accusations and at others times attempts to destroy his spirit. At other times they appeared supportive. I also noticed that blocks of verses were written in various person. (you, him, they) In addition I noticed that at times the friends spoke with support of man and other times referred to man as the lowest of creatures. There also appeared in the friends comments prophesy about Job's future that turned out to be true.

I started to divide the verses into blocks where each block held to a theme. As I divided the verses I noticed that the accusing blocks used language that matched aspects of the conversation between Satan and God in heaven. These blocks of verses contained the opposite of God's view of Job. They also compared man and angels. Fallen angels and God's trust of angels came up twice. Also a call to God to intervien if Job was truly righteous occurred twice. There also appeared to be a prophetic statement about Satan's future.

Since prophesy is limited to God and the friends were chastised by God in the end of the book of Job I wondered if the message they delivered to Job was inspired by the Holy Ghost. I then started to divide the friends comments into six message types. The first message type was from Satan to Job. These were messages that tried to bring Job to accuse God or destroy his willpower so he would curse God in order to die. That message was first given to him by his wife after his possessions were taken away. The second message type appeared to come from the Holy Ghost and gave Job comfort by telling him his future was bright and to hang on. The third message type also came from the Holy Ghost but talked to Job about Satan and/or evil. The forth message type was Satan speaking to the Holy Ghost. The sixth message type appeared to come from his friend and not from Satan or the Holy Ghost.

I could find no message buried in the comments by Elishu. It is interesting to note that his comments appeared heart felt and appropriate. He is also not chastised by God like the other three friends.

In the conversation between Satan and God, several statements were made by God about Job. Because God made them we know them to be true so any comments that don't agree with them are lies or come from ignorance. If the message is given by Satan then it is a lie because he was with God when He spoke the truth about Job.


Here is the list of truths spoken by God about Job:

God's servant Job 1:8 2:3
None like him on the earth Job 1:8 2:3
Blameless Job 1:8 2:3
Upright Job 1:8 2:3
Fears God Job 1:8 2:3
Shuns evil Job 1:8 2:3
Holds fast to his integrity Job 2:3
Is being destroyed without cause Job 2:3

Now in Job 4:12 we have a clue of the spiritual possession. It may be that the voice he heard was his own.

Satan says to God that Job will curse God to His face if all of Job's possessions are touched. After Job's possessions are taken away and Job does not curse God to His face. Satan then says that if God would touch his bone and flesh Job would surely curse Him to His face. Job of course does not curse God.

Job's wife comes to him after they lose their possessions and tells him “Do you still hold fast to your integrity? Curse God and die!” This message appears to come from Satan since it is stating what Satan is wishing for. Job calls his wife foolish for saying this to him.

In Job 5:19 Job is told he will have six troubles, a seventh trouble will happen and then he will be protected from evil. As I laid out the different message types I found six times that Satan addressed Job. The last trouble was when God came down from heaven to demand Job respond to His questions. After this he was blessed.


Speaking Outline

Eliphaz

Eliphaz speaks to Job 4:2-11
Satan speaks to Job 4:12-21 The first trouble
Holy Ghost speaks to Job 5:1-27

Bildad

Satan speaks to Job 8:2-7 The second trouble
Holy Ghost speaks to Job about Satan 8:8-10
Holy Ghost speaks to Satan 8:11-18
Holy Ghost speaks to Job 8:19-22

Zophar

Satan speaks to Job 11:1-6 The third trouble
Holy Ghost speaks to Job 11:7-20

Eliphaz

Holy Ghost speaks to Satan 15:2-6
Holy Ghost speaks to Job 15:7-13
Satan speaks to Holy Ghost 15:14-16
Holy Ghost speaks to Job about Satan 15:17:35

Bildad

Bildad speaks to Job 18:2-4
Holy Ghost speaks to Job about Satan 18:5-21

Zophar

Zophar speaks to Job 20:1-3
Holy Ghost speaks to Job about Satan 20:4-29

Eliphaz

Satan speaks to Job 22:2-4 The forth trouble
Holy Ghost speaks to Satan 22:5-11
Satan speaks to Job 22:12-18 The fifth trouble
Holy Ghost speaks to Job 22:19-30

Bildad

Satan speaks to Job 25:2-6 The sixth trouble

Elihu speaks to Job 32:1-37

The Lord speaks to Job 38:1-41 The seventh trouble
The Lord speaks to Job 39:1-30
The Lord speaks to Job 40:1-24
The Lord speaks to Job 41:1-34


Comments about the verses

Eliphaz

Job 4:2-11 Eliphaz speaks about his dream or vision
Job 4:12-21 Satan speaks to Job
17 Job does not place himself above God but by inference he is accused of this
18 Speaks of angels being charged with error — something Satan knows all about
19 Compares angels to man — house of clay, built from dust, crushed easily
20 Perish forever — not the truth, death is but a turning of the page
21 All become the same in death — another lie, the righteous and foolish are separated out
Job 5:1-27 Holy Ghost speaks to Job
1 Who will you turn to?
2 Choose well your course, take the path to God
3 I cursed the foolish, his dwelling
4 No deliverer for the foolish
5 Men who choose evil are soon caught in the snare of sin
6 Evil is not man made, Satan was not made with the earth
7 Man is born into the earth where trouble rules, sparks fly upward can refer to embers going up from a fire but can also mean a lightening bolt, lightening does travel from the ground to the clouds so this is another correct technical statement, it can also refer to the fact that Job will have additional offspring in the future
8 Seek God
9-16 God does marvelous things
17,18 Do not despise God when trouble comes your way, Just as Paul said that you will only be tested at the level you can handle, Big trouble means God has confidence in you, be happy
19 Prophesy — six troubles then a seventh after this no evil
20 —26 After your seventh trouble you shall be protected, from famine, from war, from slander, you shall be fearless,the beast of the earth will not frighten you, the land and the domesticated animals will be at peace with you, evil will not visit you, your descendants will be many, you will live a full life
27 We have searched out — who is this we? Could it be the seven spirits of the Holy Ghost Rev 4:5

Bildad

Job 8:1-7 Satan speaks to Job
2 Complains about Job talking
3 Judgement / justice / torture — God said without cause, Satan is saying God is doing this as punishment and Justice
4 Son's sins cast away — Job has sacrificed for his sons. Satan is denying remission.
5 Seek God — this is the setup for the next lie
6 Knowing God will not show up (so he thinks) tells Job that God would show up if he were upright. God declared him upright.
7 Believe you are not upright — believe you are deserving of punishment and God will reward you. This lie is to bring doubt to Job.
Job 8:8-10 Holy Ghost talks to Job about Satan
8 Consider the wisdom of the former age
9 People born today are but a shadow of the wisdom of our forefathers
10 Again, consider the wisdom of the former age
Job 8:11-18 Holy Ghost speaks to Satan
11-14 People who follow you shall wither. Satan the hypocrite shall perish, Satans power cut off, people who trust Satan are caught in a web
15-18 Satan's house (his followers) does not stand, not attached to bedrock, have not seen you
Job 8:19-22 Holy Ghost speaks to Job
19 You and your sons and daughters will not be cast away as Satan has said
21-22 Hold on good things are coming, laughing, rejoicing, evil will not touch you

Zophar

Job 11:1-6 Satan speaks to Job
2,3 Complains about Job talking
4 Speaks for God — again Satan is counting on God not appearing. Implies God would disagree with him.
6 God exacts from you only half of what you deserve
Job 11:7-20 Holy Ghost speaks to Job
7-11 God is beyond you, cannot be hindered
12 No way possible for empty headed man, you must think
13 Run from wickedness, misery will pass away, your life will be brighter, many wil court your favor, you will not be afraid
20 The wicked once they find out they are doomed hope for an end to life to avoid the punishment due them

Eliphaz

Job 15:2-6 Holy Ghost speaks to Satan
2,3 Your talk is unprofitable
4 You have no fear of God, you restrain others from prayer
5 Your iniquity guides you, you speak with skill but not the truth
6 You condemn yourself by what you say
Job 15:7-11 The Holy Ghost speaks to Job
7 When were you made? Before the hills?
8 You set your limits?
9 You think you know everything?
10 Your forefathers are with us, don't place your thoughts above them
11 Is your existence not enough for you
12,13 You turn against God? Why do you seek death?
Job 15:14-16 Satan speaks to the Holy Ghost
14 Man is nothing, born of woman
15 God does not trust angels
16 Man is less than the angels
Job 15:17-35 Holy Ghost speaks to Job about Satan
17 Hear me I will tell you
23 He knows darkness awaits for him
25 He is against God
27-29 He will not conquer the entire earth
30 The Lord will speak and Satan will go away
31 He deceives himself, a lost cause
32-35 All that Satan builds will be taken away

Bildad

Job 18:2-4 Bildad speaks to Job
2 How long till end of words
3 Are we stupid
4 You tear yourself, who shall prevail
Job 18:5-21 Holy Ghost speaks to Job about Satan
5-7 Evil is doomed
8-12 A trap is set for him (tribulation)
13 His followers are taken by death
14 His tent is the earth, it is taken away, he is bound before the King of Kings
15 The earth is inhabited by none of his, brimstone on earth during tribulation
16-18 His followers are gone, he is chased out of the earth
19 No remnant remains
20 The army of armagedden , west and east, Rev 16:12 , Rev 16:16
21 No place for him who does not know God

Zophar

Job 20:1-3 Zophar speaks to Job
2,3 A spirit in me causes me to answer you
Job 20:4-29 Holy Ghost speaks to Job about Satan
4-6 The wicked succeed for a short while
7-9 The earth will not hold him anymore
10 Satan's followers will seek the favor of the poor, (the poor in spirit for this world but rich in spirit of God) similar to the rich man in she'ol, Satan will restore wealth to himself
11The wicked spend a great deal of effort in obtaining their earthly pleasures, in the end it amounts to nothing.
12-16 Evil and Satan
17 Satan will not see the new earth
19 Satan took the earth which he did not make

Eliphaz

Job 22:2-4 Satan speaks to Job
2,3 Think of what is profitable to you. What does God care if you are righteoous
4 Your fear of God is the reason you are being punished
Job 22:5-11 Holy Ghost speaks to Satan
5-9 you have done many evil things
10 snares are set for you
Job 22:12-18Satan speaks to Job
12-14 God cannot see what happens on the earth
15-18 Man has told God to depart yet they were rewarded, I council you with no evil intent
Job 22:19-30 Holy Ghost speaks to Job
19,20 Hang in there, keep a good attitude, your adversaries will be removed
21 Listen to God and take him into your heart
30 Your offerings will save someone

Bildad

Job 25:2-6 Satan speaks to Job
2 No man can be righteous, the angels are not pure in His sight, man is nothin
6 Man is a maggot

Elihu

Here are some key verses in Elihu

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding

Job 32:18 For I am full of words; The spirit within me compels me.

Job 36:4 For truly my words are not false; One who is perfect is with you.

Frank, This is amazing. How long did it take to block it? It appears that in the end Satan will be no more and is fighting a lost cause. At the end of time and at the beginning of the new universe all will be pure (without sin) and Satan will no longer be useful (put away or destroyed). Is that the jist of this in simple terms? When will your book be ready? I would sure love to read it.

I do not know for sure if this is right, but it does ring true in some way with me. There is some insight into the mindset of Satan. It also if true sheds light on talking in the spirit. As you recall one of the apostles

Mar 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savorest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

and another

Luk 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Now that The Holy Ghost is on the earth this may not be as common but I do know it happens.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this post and actually look at scripture. I have only been able to get two people to read this and check it out so far that I know of. If this turns out to be true I have no idea why it would be reveiled to me. I am nobody special. But once it came to me I thought I better get it out there just in case the connections made were not mine.

I printed this up and was going to go over it last night.

BUT.. having 2 more boys in the house make for alot of play time now they are comfortable.

Most people refuse to believe that a spiritual war is going on. Satan and his followers have been very successful in making most people deny that he even exist. A careful read of the New testament reveils that a spiritual war was going on during Christ time on earth. I have always been amazed at why people would feel that the war is over and these spirits just don't exist anymore.

We have very little in the Bible to indicate just how Satan feels about man and God. If this second level of communication is true then we have expanded greatly our amount of dialog to study. I find that the verses relating to the Holy Ghost are prophetic and give us insight into the hands on approach to intervention.

On a side note: In the Book of Job there is an outline of the entire Bible. I will just post it and leave it up to you to see how it fulfills the major events in the Bible.

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
But ye should say, Why persecute we him, seeing the root of the matter is found in me?
Be ye afraid of the sword: for wrath bringeth the punishments of the sword, that ye may know there is a judgment. Job 19

I just love the Book of Job. There are many of these little gems in there.

Hi all,

Just Bumping this thread up a few notches so I can find it and respond more on it later.

However, I am posting a copy from another thread to here so I can keep my focus of this topic better:

frankbaginski wrote:Canuckster1127, I did not find anything in your post I disagree with. I only look in the context of many things the literal interpretation first. I agree literal has to be placed in time, who said it, etc. And there are scriptures that have more than one way of looking at them. Like Ps 2, which can be viewed as a conversation between the Godhead, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. The Bible is very complicated, more so than I am even aware of I am sure.

In the Book of Job there is an outline of the entire Bible.

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
Job 19:28 But ye should say, Why persecute we him, seeing the root of the matter is found in me?
Job 19:29 Be ye afraid of the sword: for wrath bringeth the punishments of the sword, that ye may know there is a judgment.

The first and second coming, God as flesh
Resurrection and new body
Persecution of Christ and dying for our sins
Judgment

Now some may say that this was just the ramblings of a man in pain. I see much more.

The bible is a book of deep meanings that the Holy Spirit illuminates ones soul and creates understanding of things divinely inspired. Jesus stated that the Old Testament testified of him and it most certainly does. The book of Job testifies of Christ. It is a rich book.

The Old Testament also testifies of the Trinity, yet, most people do not see this. Back in the early 1981-1984 I went through the entire OT and color coded the different names used in the ancient Hebrew language for God Almighty so I could tell the difference between Elohim, Eloah, Yahweh, Ruach of Elohim, Elyon, etc, when reading in English so I could identify these easily. Accidentally, from doing this, I began noting how the grammar structure was related to the individual names, as well as alsoin the combination of joining these names began revealing something about the Father Son, and Holy Spirit. Very amazing!

Now let us look at what you brought up…

Job 19:26-29, “And after my skin, thus torn to pieces, And without my flesh shall I behold Eloah, 27 Whom I shall behold for my good, And mine eyes shall see Him and no other - My veins languish in my bosom. 28 Ye think: “How shall we persecute him?”
Since the root of the matter is found in me - 29 Therefore be ye afraid of the sword, For wrath meeteth the transgressions of the sword, That ye may know there is a judgment!” From the Kiel and Delitzsch Commentary of the OT.

Note usage of Eloah in verse 26…Wow!- If you only can see what this is saying in its deepness...

Now look and read these verses below within their full chapter context on you own...

Isaiah 53:5, “But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned--every one--to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.” ESV

Psalms 22:6, “But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by mankind and despised by the people.” ESV

Romans 8:34, “Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died--more than that, who was raised--who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.” ESV

Luke 24:25, “And he said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?" 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.” ESV

Please also note that a person needs to consider how the OT uses the nuances of each of the names for God [Elohim, Elyon, El, etc] before making a judgment on what side of the Trinity the name is revealing.

God Bless, hope this helps…
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B.W.,

When Jacob was called Israel he was doing God's work but when he was called Jacob he was not. The Word is very precise.

And not just that but structure like a comma. In Isa 61:1 there is a comma that Christ stopped at as written in Luke 4:21. That comma has lasted over 2000 years.

I am into all things in science. But the study of the Bible is way beyond any complexities we find in nature. I think many secrets will be reveiled shortly that have been hidden from our eyes. What a great time to be living. With the information super highway we get to hear and see most of it.