Evidence for God from Science

I read one post somewhere that said Believing in Christ is all that is required for salvation. Is this true? Or are there other requirements? Yes I know we've been through this before, I just wanted a little clarification.

jenwat3 wrote:I read one post somewhere that said Believing in Christ is all that is required for salvation. Is this true? Or are there other requirements? Yes I know we've been through this before, I just wanted a little clarification.

I believe that is true. When we believe and recieve God free gift of salvation freely given through the sacrifice of His Son on the cross we have eternal life period.

Ephesians 2:8 and 9 says that it is by grace through faith that we are saved, not by works which would allow us cause to boast. (that is the FFC version) It's true that are were created for good works as stated in verse 10, but, in my opinion, in no way does this imply that we are to do works to get or secure salvation...otherwise it would not be grace and it would not be free.

So anyone who believes in Christ is saved? Am I reading this right?

jenwat3 wrote:So anyone who believes in Christ is saved? Am I reading this right?

Let's be very careful.....Even Satan *believed* that CHrist existed.....demons *believed* also. A belief in Christ's saving power and HIs payment for our sins (Accepting that payment for our sin) is, I think, simply more accurate and precise.

zoegirl wrote:

jenwat3 wrote:So anyone who believes in Christ is saved? Am I reading this right?

Let's be very careful.....Even Satan *believed* that CHrist existed.....demons *believed* also. A belief in Christ's saving power and HIs payment for our sins (Accepting that payment for our sin) is, I think, simply more accurate and precise.

Yes.

I would also add that belief in Christ entails believing who Christ is revealed to be in scripture. If we do not believe who he is (revealed to be) then we cannot trust His promise even when we confess it.

Byblos wrote:

zoegirl wrote:

jenwat3 wrote:So anyone who believes in Christ is saved? Am I reading this right?

Let's be very careful.....Even Satan *believed* that CHrist existed.....demons *believed* also. A belief in Christ's saving power and HIs payment for our sins (Accepting that payment for our sin) is, I think, simply more accurate and precise.

Yes.

I would also add that belief in Christ entails believing who Christ is revealed to be in scripture. If we do not believe who he is (revealed to be) then we cannot trust His promise even when we confess it.

Jenna, what is your main objection to faith alone? Is it that it sounds too simple...or do you not see it backed up in scripture?

I guess my main objection would be that anyone could say they have faith in Christ. I have no objection to faith, please don't misunderstand me. I realize you HAVE to have faith. I guess all I'm saying is that not everyone who professes to have faith actually does. The ones that truly do are known by their "fruits". This is where the "works" comes into play. And I think Zoe hit the nail on the head with her reply.

jenwat3 wrote:I guess my main objection would be that anyone could say they have faith in Christ. I have no objection to faith, please don't misunderstand me. I realize you HAVE to have faith. I guess all I'm saying is that not everyone who professes to have faith actually does. The ones that truly do are known by their "fruits". This is where the "works" comes into play. And I think Zoe hit the nail on the head with her reply.

Sure, anyone could say they have faith. But still, the works only reveal what's in our hearts, nothing more. We do need to be careful of thinking that anything we DO makes us acceptable to God. It is CHrist's righteousness that covers us and makes us acceptable.

If we are new creations in Christ when we come to a saving belief in CHrist, as scripture says, then the power of Christ in us is the reason we produce fruit.

ANYTHING, or ANY other idea as to how we "follow" the laws or do right things is following the old covenant under the law. We will never be able to follow the law perfectly. Christ's regeneration and sanctification changes us so that we do produce fruit.

Saying that we "do this" and "follow that" is a tricky thought process and one that we must approach with caution. It is a snare that we often fall into to think that following this or doing that has anything to do with our salvation.

Very nice post, Zoe. So we accept Jesus and live the life He would want us to live and leave it at that. Correct?

Jen - just thought you might find reading through this long discussion helpful to your thoughts on this issue: http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =22&t=3258

jenwat3 wrote:Very nice post, Zoe. So we accept Jesus and live the life He would want us to live and leave it at that. Correct?

I agree with that, Jenna. I just believe that, like Paul said, it is by the Grace of God that we are what we are ...and do what we do... and not by our works. Otherwise we if we were to judge our salvation by our works nobody would be saved. I don't know about you but I can't seem to string very many good works together without a bd one creeping in there...and like James said, if we break one commandment we broke them all. This is why, in my opinion, it has to be all God and only grace.

God will deal with those people who just go through the motions and profess only His name. We just need to walk in His ways and put him first in everything.

FFC wrote:

jenwat3 wrote:Very nice post, Zoe. So we accept Jesus and live the life He would want us to live and leave it at that. Correct?

I agree with that, Jenna. I just believe that, like Paul said, it is by the Grace of God that we are what we are ...and do what we do... and not by our works. Otherwise we if we were to judge our salvation by our works nobody would be saved. I don't know about you but I can't seem to string very many good works together without a bd one creeping in there...and like James said, if we break one commandment we broke them all. This is why, in my opinion, it has to be all God and only grace.

God will deal with those people who just go through the motions and profess only His name. We just need to walk in His ways and put him first in everything.

Now this I definitely agree with. Walk in His ways and put Him first in everything. That's what I've been trying to say all along. I guess it takes somebody else to say it for me. I've never been one to be a good communicator. Thanks for this FFC.

jenwat3 wrote:

FFC wrote:

jenwat3 wrote:Very nice post, Zoe. So we accept Jesus and live the life He would want us to live and leave it at that. Correct?

I agree with that, Jenna. I just believe that, like Paul said, it is by the Grace of God that we are what we are ...and do what we do... and not by our works. Otherwise we if we were to judge our salvation by our works nobody would be saved. I don't know about you but I can't seem to string very many good works together without a bd one creeping in there...and like James said, if we break one commandment we broke them all. This is why, in my opinion, it has to be all God and only grace.

God will deal with those people who just go through the motions and profess only His name. We just need to walk in His ways and put him first in everything.

Now this I definitely agree with. Walk in His ways and put Him first in everything. That's what I've been trying to say all along. I guess it takes somebody else to say it for me. I've never been one to be a good communicator. Thanks for this FFC.

Your welcome but I think you communicate very well.

Let add too…

John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
Simple statement

Joh 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

Do you love him if you do not keep His commandments? What does Jesus say?

Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Those who practice lawlessness are professing Christians who refuse either to recognize Jesus' laws or commandments or to live by them.


Mat 7:24 "Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it."

Are we doers of the word?

Mat 5:44 "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Do we follow this commandment?

Rev 2:7 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'

Rev 2:11 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'

Rev 3:12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

Rev 3:21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
He who overcomes?

Jesus ask us to count the cost before joining Him.

Luk 14:27 "Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28 "For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it? 29 "Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, 30 saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.' 31 "Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand? "Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. 33 "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.


What other commandments?
Mat 6:25 "For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 "Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? 27 "And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life? 28 "And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, 29 yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. 30 "But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith! "Do not worry then, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear for clothing?' 32 "For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. "So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Yet, we worry at how we look, because style and image is extremely important in our culture. What account will I have to give for my lifestyle? How much money wasted on such things that could have helped others?

Thankfully, we don't have to accomplish all these many commands by our own power. God also gives us many promises to be with us in every way necessary to assure our success:

"I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me ['I have strength for all things in Him which gives me power' {Henry Alford}], 'Nothing is beyond my power in the strength of Him Who makes me strong' {The Twentieth Century New Testament}, 'I am ready for anything through the strength of the One who lives within me' {Phillips Translation}]" (Phil. 4:13).

"Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He shall lift you up" (James 4:10).

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me" (Gal. 2:20).

"And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not [Gk: 'do not lose heart'] " (Gal. 6:9).

"Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing" (II Tim.4:8).

"Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment [remember that], 'judgment is upon the House of God now,' I Pet. 4:17] : because as He is, so also are we in this world" (I John 4:17).

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship [Gk: achievement], created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:8-9).

"If God be for us, who can be against us? (Rom. 8:31).

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angles, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ which is in Christ Jesus our lord" (Rom. 8:38-39).

And likewise, there are many more such Scriptures of comfort and assurance that God is able and willing to see us succeed once He has begun a work in us. Yet we must be humble and separate from this world. You can not serve both God and Mammon. If you have to have the latest styles, cars, and cell phones then you are not going to be an over comer. This will be the hardest struggle for Christians in America,. To die to our own selfish desires and put others first. It is easy to talk about but is no easy task to live out! The walk is slow, but one day I will not care about worldly things. I pray that day will come soon so I can be one who overcomes. What does James tell us.

James 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

Make no mistake our works will be tested by fire.
Co 3:13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Not so simple a statement after all.

Very nice,

My only point concerns the work of salvation, which is solely through Christ's work on the cross...our salvation is not by works