Evidence for God from Science

I heard a minister ask this question, and I wanted to pass it on here.

Do we believe because we are sheep?

OR

Are we sheep because we believe?

Just wanted to hear your thoughts...

Thanks!

My take on this is that Christ is the shepherd, so I am a sheep because I believe in Him. And I believe in Him because I am a sheep, who follows the shepherd.

dukefan1989 wrote:I heard a minister ask this question, and I wanted to pass it on here.

Do we believe because we are sheep?

OR

Are we sheep because we believe?

Just wanted to hear your thoughts...

Thanks!

This begs the question if sheep is equivocated to mean the same thing in both cases since one is a part of the "sheep" no matter how they answer.

If it means two different things in either case, then it is an OR question is not applicable.

Such a question isn't in my opinion clever or remarkable and while I could take a few stabs I don't really know what the point of it is.

I think the point is are we sheep or sheep? Maybe?

Metaphorically, yes to both.
Anatomically, no to both.

Now my brain hurts...

Judah wrote:Metaphorically, yes to both.
Anatomically, no to both.

Now my brain hurts...

Well, all I can say is baaa-aaa-aaaa....
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jenwat3 wrote:My take on this is that Christ is the shepherd, so I am a sheep because I believe in Him. And I believe in Him because I am a sheep, who follows the shepherd.

Very good. I agree. His sheep hear His voice and they folow Him.

And we follow Him because we are His sheep! As stated above, baaa baaa.

jenwat3 wrote:And we follow Him because we are His sheep! As stated above, baaa baaa.

Exactly...so really, both answers are right!

Sounds like a typical Calvinist debate type question? As one preacher said here in Riverdale, Georgia:

"You weren't saved because you believed. You believed because you were saved!"

To the OP, I believe we become Christ's when we believe, not before.

God bless

Christ is always the shepherd whether we choose to follow Him or not- and to refuse following Him de-sheeps us and makes us goats,bad sheeps in other words.We are created with an inclination to become goats(sin is our veins),but Christ died that we defeat the goatish feeling and assert our (true)sheep nature.

oscarsiziba wrote:Christ is always the shepherd whether we choose to follow Him or not- and to refuse following Him de-sheeps us and makes us goats,bad sheeps in other words.We are created with an inclination to become goats(sin is our veins),but Christ died that we defeat the goatish feeling and assert our (true)sheep nature.

What I see is that He is faithful even when we're not. Where does it say we are de-sheeped?

Byblos wrote:

oscarsiziba wrote:Christ is always the shepherd whether we choose to follow Him or not- and to refuse following Him de-sheeps us and makes us goats,bad sheeps in other words.We are created with an inclination to become goats(sin is our veins),but Christ died that we defeat the goatish feeling and assert our (true)sheep nature.

What I see is that He is faithful even when we're not. Where does it say we are de-sheeped?

I think we are either sheep or goats from the start and only God knows which until we hear His voice and come to Him.

FFC wrote:

jenwat3 wrote:My take on this is that Christ is the shepherd, so I am a sheep because I believe in Him. And I believe in Him because I am a sheep, who follows the shepherd.

Very good. I agree. His sheep hear His voice and they folow Him.

DITTO...........bah bah bah baaaaaaaaaaaa!

I think we are either sheep or goats from the start and only God knows which until we hear His voice and come to Him.

IMO God only sees sheep, it's just some are close, and some have strayed. No matter to what distance someone has strayed, it's not His will that they are lost, He is still looking to bring them back to the flock even if they aren't thinking about coming to the flock or listening to him.

Matthew 18:12-14 "What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost."

Going back to the original question posed, my view is different than those expressed so far I think. I would say it's by the attitude first of the Father, how he is caring and concerned about us, that we are all "sheep". We can have the dawning realization and accept that we are in his flock but prior to that and first defining us as sheep isn't anything we've done or believed in our minds. He has first made us his by virtue of his affection and concern for us.