Beginnings

[jeannie]

Was wondering..
who is Cain's wife in Genesis 4:17? Is she a blood relative? If so,why was she out of the Lord's presence and dwelling in the land of Nod and not in Eden (Gen4:16)? If she is not, where did she come from?

Would really appreciate answers with Scripture support. Thanks!

[madscientist]

Sorry I do not tend to give Scripture evidence etc but I'll try answer at least somehow... I think she was one of his relatives yes. Adam and Eve's child - so his sister or something she must've been.

If so,why was she out of the Lord's presence and dwelling in the land of Nod and not in Eden (Gen4:16)? If she is not, where did she come from?

Don't understand that very much... Well who was in Eden after the fall? Did anyone live there after? If yes then no idea; if no then it means they all lived in Nod...
Ya don't know if that helped maybe not hope someone can explain it better

[Katabole]

Hi Jeannie.

If you manage to get you hands on a Green's Interlinear Bible, then you can look at the difference in the words used for "man" and "Adam" in the Genesis account of creation. I will briefly explain.

Gen 1:26, And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (KJV)

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

So clearly on the sixth day, God created man and woman.

Skipping over to chapter two, there appears to be a contradiction:

Gen 2:5, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

Now, since God created "man" on the sixth day, why is it stipulated that after God rested on the seventh day, Gen 2:2, "there was not a man to till the ground?" There evidently should have been, since he created man already .

Gen 2:7, And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

The difference in the words for "man" in Gen 1:26, 27 and Gen 2:7, 8 is very subtle and is easily missed in the English. For ease of reading it should read, that God created "mankind or human kind" on the sixth day thats the Hebrew word `Adam,

120
'adam
aw-dawm'
from ''adam' (119); ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.):--X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.

But after the seventh day, God created "eth `Adam" or the man Adam.

119
'adam
aw-dam'
to show blood (in the face), i.e. flush or turn rosy:--be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).

If the days of creation were one thousand year periods, then by the time Adam was created after the seventh day, there were many people on the earth already.

Thus, when Cain is exiled to the land of Nod, he meets a woman there from the sixth day creation and marries her.

Don't let the beginning of Genesis 2 confuse you. When it says:

Gen 2:1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

This chapter begins after the completion of the heavens and the earth, when it is fit for habitation. The "hosts" are the masses of people of every race, created on the sixth day, and their offspring, as each race multiplied "after their kind". "Hosts" in the Hebrew text, is given as "tsaba", which shows a binding unity within each group or race, such as organizing for war. In the Strong's Hebrew dictionary it is # 6635, it comes from the root meaning "to assemble to perform". Each of these souls or people, having been created, now stood ready to pass through this earth age. Each soul having the free will to choose light, or darkness.

This may appear racist, but it is not. When God created man on the sixth day:

Gen 1:31, And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

So it was very good. However, God created the "Adamic" race, so that eventually, down through the generations, Christ would be born through that bloodline.

Again, I will suggest that you check out a Green's Interlinear Bible for yourself, so that you can see the difference between the words in Genesis used for "man".

I hope that helps.

Ron

[MarkyMark7]

Ron, I strongly disagree with you. Unless I misunderstood you you said that the people refered to during the Sixth Day were not Adam and Eve. I will site scriptures from the NASB.
Genesis 1:27- "God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them."
Doesn't the singular pronoun "him" refers to Adam? "Them" refers to Adam and Eve does it not? Adam and Eve were the male and female he created on Day Six. Then we get details about them in Genesis 2. How do we know that Genesis 2 is further details about the first six days of creation? B/c scripture comes out and says it.
Genesis 2:4- "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven."
Genesis 2:5 is referring to Day Three (Genesis 1:9-13) is it not? There wasn't man to till the ground b/c the Sixth Day and Adam we're still a few days (or thousand years if you believe that) away.

Also, consider this. If there was indeed a group of people before Adam and Eve they would be in a very odd spiritual condition. Since they were around before the fall were they sinless? Not only would they have to be sinless but they would also be people without death, b/c without sin they were without death. (Romans 6:23)
Also, read Genesis 3:14-19 and you'll see what else sinless people would be without.

[Katabole]

Hi MM7.

Well, if you believe that Adam and Eve were created on the sixth day, then how do you explain the existence of other races? If Adam and Eve were indeed created on the sixth day, then when Cain went to the land of Nod, there should only have been 3 people on the planet, Adam and Eve and Cain. But it says he knew his wife. That certainly wasn't Eve, so it had to be someone else. Since it was another woman and scripture doesn't claim that God created a wife for Cain, then she already had to be here. Thus, the only explanation is that Adam and Eve were not created on the sixth day but after the seventh and that God created all the races or humankind on the sixth day. And as I already pointed out, God did not create "eth `Adam" (the man Adam) on the sixth day but "`Adam" (humankind).
No, Gen 2:5, is not speaking of the third day. In Gen 2:5, when it says there was not a "man" to till the ground, it is saying there was not an "eth 'Adam" or the man Adam. Why? Because he was not created at that time. God did not create the Adamic bloodline until after he had created the others. The "them" is referring to male and female of all the races in Gen 1:27.

Yes, I do believe that the "days" of creation are thousand year periods of time because:

Psalm 90:4, For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. (KJV) And...

2Pet 3:8, But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Thus there was ample time for the races to reproduce after their kind, in order for Cain to meet his wife in the land of Nod.

Yes, I do believe that the other races were created sinless, however, Satan was here on earth at that time and it is my opinion and I stress opinion, that they were tempted by Satan and failed just like Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve would have remained immortal if they had not eaten from the tree because God said they would only die if they ate from the tree, meaning they would have remained immortal. They ate from the tree however, and suffered the penalty. Christ in the temptation of Satan in the desert in Matthew, did what Adam and Eve could not do: He withstood the temptation of Satan.

As I previously stated, do not take my word for it but check it out yourself using a good interliner Bible. I use the Green's because I believe it's the best there is.

You see otherwise, it leads to a baffling scenario that Adam and Eve and Cain were on the earth but there was another woman in the land of Nod that is not documented as being created by God. And if that is the case, then where did she come from?

It is much easier to understand if you believe that God created all the races previous to Adam and Eve's creation and that Cain married a woman from the sixth day creation because the races would have existed prior to Adam and Eve and that is why this woman, along with many other people of different races were living on the earth at this time. And I believe that is what scripture is actually saying.

I don't mean to talk down to you or oversimplify but the question Jeannie asked was one I pondered over quite a few years ago. It made no sense at all, until I understood the difference between `Adam (humankind) and eth `Adam (the man Adam).

Hope that helps.

Ron

[Kurieuo]

Genesis 5:4 states Adam became the father of many sons and daughters. Also refer to: http://www.reasons.org/resources/apolog ... wife.shtml

[FFC]

We don't know how many years passed from Cain's birth until he killed his brother and was bannished. It could have been hundreds of years. In which case there could have been countless sisters or cousins to take as a wife.

[MarkyMark7]

Genesis 2:4 TELLS us that Genesis 2 is about the Days of Creation:
"This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven."
I feel that saying there was a sinless group of people running around before The Fall is not only not mentioned in scripture, but is also contradictory to Biblical Doctrine. Cain having a wife can be explained without scewing scripture. Either she was a daughter of Eve (literally, not as C.S. Lewis would use that phrase ) or, as I believe, after The Fall of Man God created other people, from which came Cain's wife.
It's tres facile to explain the existance of other races. For example, Esau was born red...and who do Muslims say they come from...and what color are Arabic people? (If I got called a racist...)

On the length of days, I believe if you look at Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 in context it is easy to see they are not talking about The Days of Creation. Both contribute to the meaning of the Chapter. Psalm 90 starts with the verse, "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations.", and later says "Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God." Wouldn't it be logical to assume that Psalm 90:4 is contributing to those points not making a random elaboration on Genesis 1? 2 Peter 3:9 says, "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." Kinda sounds like 2 Peter 3:8 has nothing to do with Genesis 1. Do you want to say that everytime the Bible uses the word "Day" they're actually refering to "a thousand years"? Or does it only apply when we need it to for it to make sense?

[Katabole]

Yes, I know what Genesis 2:4 says. Gen 2:1 says:

Gen 2:1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

The rest of chapter 2 following verse 1 is after the heavens and earth were finished.

According to Gen 1:26 it says,

Gen 1:26, And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (KJV)

So man had dominion over the fish, men were fisherman, over the fowl of the air, men were hunters, over the cattle, men were herdsmen (animal husbandry) and over the creeping thing, men were gatherers of fruits and vegatables. It does not say here however, that God had a farmer.

Gen 2:5, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

If there was not a man to till the ground then God did not create a farmer in Gen 1:26. He created the farmer in Gen 2:7:

Gen 2:7, And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Look where God places him and look at what he does:

Gen 2:15, And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Dressing and keeping a garden is what a farmer does.

I did not "scew" scripture. This is what scripture is actually saying.

The days of creation are God's days, (or a day with the Lord) not man's days. 2Pet 3:8, is very specific as it begins with Peter saying:

2Pet 3:8, But,beloved be not ignorant of this one thing

What one thing?

that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

No, not everytime day is used is it referring to a thousand year period. Only the days of creation and the Lord's day.

I believe God exiled Cain immediately and that He would not have him interfere in that bloodline. So I do not believe he commited incest with any female member of Adam and Eve's other children. That bloodline had to be kept pure.

Christ is called a son of Adam in the New Testament.

Lk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Cain killing Abel was part of Satan's plan to destroy the bloodline so that Christ would never be born. God exiled Cain so that he wouldn't interfere with Christ being born.

Here is an explanation of the synonym's used for the word "man" in the Bible:

14. THE SYNONYMOUS WORDS
USED FOR "MAN".



There are four principal Hebrew words rendered "man", and these must be carefully discriminated. Every occurrence is noted in the margin of The Companion Bible. They represent him from four different points of view :--


'Adam, denotes his origin, as being made from the "dust of the Adamah" ground (Lat. homo).
'Ish, has regard to sex, a male (Lat. vir).
'Enosh, has regard to his infirmities, as physically mortal, and as to character, incurable.
'Geber, has respect to his strength, a mighty man.


'Adam, without the article, denotes man or mankind in general (Gen. 1:26; 2:5; 5:1, followed by plural pronoun). With the article, it denotes the man, Adam, though rendered "man" in Gen. 1:27; 2:7 (twice), 8, 15, 16, 19 (marg.), 22 (twice); 3:12, 22, 24; 5:1; 6:1 (rendered "men"), 2, 3, 4. After this, the Hebrew 'Adam = man or men, is used of the descendants of Adam. Hence, Christ is called "the son of Adam", not a son of Enosh.
With the particle ha ('eth) in addition to the article it is very emphatic, and means self, very, this same, this very. See Gen. 2:7 (first occurrence), 8, 15.

Rendered in the Septuagint (anthropos) 411 times; (aner) eighteen times (fifteen times in Proverbs); (brotos), mortal (all in Job); once (gegenes), earth-born, Jer. 32:20.




'Ish. First occurrence in feminine, Gen. 2:23, 'ishah = woman. Therefore, 'ish = male, or husband; a man, in contrast with a woman. A great man in contrast with ordinary men (Ps. 49:2, where "low" are called the children of Adam, and the "high" = children of 'ish. So Ps. 62:9 and Isa. 2:9; 5:15; 31:8). When God is spoken of as man, it is 'ish (Ex. 15:3. So Josh. 5:13. Dan. 9:21; 10:5; 12:6, 7. Zech. 1:8, &c.). Also, in such expressions as "man of God", "man of understanding", &c. In the early chapters of Genesis we have it in chapters 3:33, 34 and 4:1.
Translated in Septuagint 1,083 times by (aner), Latin vir, and only 450 by (anthropos), Latin homo.

It is rendered "husband" sixty-nine times, "person" twelve times, and once or twice each in thirty-nine different ways.




'Enosh. First occurrence Gen. 6:4, men of name. Always in a bad sense (Isa. 5:22; 45:14. Judg. 18:25). Morally = depraved, and physically = frail, weak. It is from 'anash, to be sick, wretched, weak, and denotes inability, for strength, physically; and for good, morally (cp. 2Sam. 12:15. Job 34:6. Jer. 15:18; 17:9; 30:12, 15. Mic. 1:9). Note the contrasts, Isa. 2:11 and 17, "The lofty looks of man ('Adam) shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men ('Enosh) shall be bowed down" (Cp. Isa. 13:12. Job 25:6. Ps. 8:4; 90:3; 144:3. Job 4:17; 10:5; 7:17. Dan. 4:16). Other instructive passages are Isa. 8:1; 66:24. Ezek. 24:17 (afflicted, or mourners. Cp. Jer. 17:16, "day of man"). In 1Sam. 4:9 it is probably plural of 'Ish (so probably Gen. 18 and 19, where the indefinite plural must be interpreted by the context, because 'Adam would have denoted human, and 'Ish, males).
It is rendered "man" 518 times, "certain" eleven times, and once or twice each in twenty-four other and different ways.




Geber. First occurrence in Gen. 6:4 (*1), mighty men, and denotes man in respect of his physical strength, as 'Enosh does in respect of the depravity of his nature. It is rendered "man" sixty-seven times, "mighty" twice, "man-child" once, "every one" once. In the Septuagint rendered fourteen times (anthropos) and the rest by (aner).
For illustrative passages see Ex. 10:11; 12:37. 1Sam. 16:18. 2Sam. 23:1. Num. 24:3, 15. 1Chron. 26:12; 28:1. 2Chron. 13:3. Ezra 4:21; 5:4, 10; 6:8.




Methim (plural) = adults as distinguished from children, and males as distinguished from females. Occurs Gen. 34:30. Deut. 2:34; 3:6; 4:27; 26:5; 28:62; 33:6. 1Chron. 16:19. Job 11:3, 11; 19:19; 22:15; 24:12; 31:31. Ps. 17:14; 26:4; 105:12. Isa. 3:25; 5:13; 41:14. Jer. 44:28.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



(*1) In Gen. 6:4, we have three out of the above four words : "daughters of men" ( = daughters of [the man] 'Adam; "mighty men" = (geber); "men of renown" = Heb. men ('Enosh) of name, i.e. renowned for their moral depravity.

http://www.levendwater.org/companion/append14.html

http://www.companion-bible.com/CBPdffiles/

[B. W.]

Genesis 2:4 TELLS us that Genesis 2 is about the Days of Creation:
"This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven."
I feel that saying there was a sinless group of people running around before The Fall is not only not mentioned in scripture, but is also contradictory to Biblical Doctrine. Cain having a wife can be explained without scewing scripture. Either she was a daughter of Eve (literally, not as C.S. Lewis would use that phrase ) or, as I believe, after The Fall of Man God created other people, from which came Cain's wife.
It's tres facile to explain the existance of other races. For example, Esau was born red...and who do Muslims say they come from...and what color are Arabic people? (If I got called a racist...)

On the length of days, I believe if you look at Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 in context it is easy to see they are not talking about The Days of Creation. Both contribute to the meaning of the Chapter. Psalm 90 starts with the verse, "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations.", and later says "Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God." Wouldn't it be logical to assume that Psalm 90:4 is contributing to those points not making a random elaboration on Genesis 1? 2 Peter 3:9 says, "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." Kinda sounds like 2 Peter 3:8 has nothing to do with Genesis 1. Do you want to say that everytime the Bible uses the word "Day" they're actually refering to "a thousand years"? Or does it only apply when we need it to for it to make sense?

Good Points!

I don't recall all the details how but the human population growth formula can be used to go back in time to just two people: See two Links below for the math...

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultran ... tions.html

http://www.arcytech.org/java/population/facts_math.html

This link is interesting too:

http://desip.igc.org/mapanim.html
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[B. W.]

Yes, I know what Genesis 2:4 says. Gen 2:1 says:

Gen 2:1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. ...The rest of chapter 2 following verse 1 is after the heavens and earth were finished.

According to Gen 1:26 it says,-- And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (KJV)

So man had dominion over the fish, men were fisherman, over the fowl of the air, men were hunters, over the cattle, men were herdsmen (animal husbandry) and over the creeping thing, men were gatherers of fruits and vegatables. It does not say here however, that God had a farmer.

Gen 2:5, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

If there was not a man to till the ground then God did not create a farmer in Gen 1:26. He created the farmer in Gen 2:7, And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Look where God places him and look at what he does: Gen 2:15, And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. Dressing and keeping a garden is what a farmer does.....

Please read this link:

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/genesis2.html

Here is a quote from linked article:

Contrary to what many "scholars" have reported, Genesis two is not a retelling of Genesis one. How can we determine this to be true? First, we should examine the overall context. Genesis two is considerably different in regard to the emphasis of the content. Genesis one dedicates 4 verses (13%) to the creation of humans, beginning with verse 26. However, Genesis two dedicates 19 verses (76%) to the creation of humans, beginning with verse 7. Actually, since there are no real chapter breaks in the original Hebrew manuscripts, the story of the creation of humans continues throughout chapter 3 (another 24 verses). Obviously, the emphasis of the two "versions" is quite different. Part of the problem understanding this passage is because of the poor choice of English words in the common translations. The Hebrew word erets can be translated as "earth" (meaning global) or "land" (referring to a local geographical area). In the Old Testament, erets almost always refers to local geography and not the planet as a whole. We need to examine the context to determine whether erets refers to the entire earth or only a portion of it.

In contrast to Genesis one, there are no indications that the text is referring to global creation. In fact, Genesis 2 begins with God planting a garden8 in a place called Eden, whose location is described in the text that follows. In all, there are three other place names mentioned along with four rivers (verses 10-14). The second place name is Havilah, which is thought to be near the Caspian Sea.9 The third is Cush, which is thought to be a location in Southern Egypt or Ethiopia.10 The fourth is Assyria, which constitutes modern Iraq and Iran.11 Of the four rivers described in the text, only two are definitively identifiable. The Tigris12 and Euphrates13 Rivers run though Iraq and Iran. All the events of Genesis 2 occur in Eden, which is bounded by the three other locations, putting it within the Mesopotamian flood plain.

The narrative continues with descriptions of creation events. Adam was placed in the garden to cultivate it. God brought to Adam the animals He had already created for him to name.14 Since a suitable companion was not found for Adam, God created Eve.15 The narrative concludes with the initiation of the first marriage.16 All the creation descriptions in Genesis two can be attributed to the preparation of a place in which the first humans will live. Therefore, Genesis two further develops the account of mankind's creation at the end of the sixth day.

Conclusion Genesis 1 is the account of the creation of the universe and life on planet earth as it happened in chronological sequence. Genesis 2 is simply an expanded explanation of the events that occurred at the end of the sixth creation day - when God created human beings. Genesis one provides virtually no details about the creation of human beings (other than the idea that humans were created in the image of God). For a book that is dedicated to the relationship between humans and God, four verses seems like a rather poor explanation for the creation of God's preeminent creature. This is because Genesis one was never intended to stand apart from Genesis 2 and 3. Genesis 2 describes God's preparation of a specific location on earth (Eden) for habitation by the first human beings. Part of the confusion results from our English translations, which use the term "earth" when the Hebrew would better be translated "land." Read a modified NIV translation of the Genesis 2 account to see how the text should read.

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[MarkyMark7]

I guess this is something we're going to have to agree to disagree on.