Is love only a bi-product of salvation?

[Gman]

Folks I would like your opinions on this... I copied and pasted it from the other post God and science. Sorry.

about love:

i wont pretend to really even understand what love is. in human terms there's so many levels of it--man i just dont know. i love pizza isnt like i love my soulmate isnt like i love pop music isnt like God loves ME. that's something my feeble brain cant grasp.
you ask if it's black and white. i think it's either black OR white, i think it's probably extreme but only in one direction. i'd say colorful but that's not saturated enough. i think love is the absolute saturation.

however, love and love alone is only a bi-product of salvation. not a key factor in determining salvation. it's a chicken or the egg sort of thing but love alone wont save us, will it?

Is love only a bi-product of salvation? I think another question would be is what draws us to salvation (or God) in the first place?

When we marry someone, do we sign the contract first and then fall in love with them or do we fall in love first and then sign the contract? Which sounds more realistic or true?

[Kurieuo]

Folks I would like your opinions on this... I copied and pasted it from the other post God and science. Sorry.

about love:

i wont pretend to really even understand what love is. in human terms there's so many levels of it--man i just dont know. i love pizza isnt like i love my soulmate isnt like i love pop music isnt like God loves ME. that's something my feeble brain cant grasp.
you ask if it's black and white. i think it's either black OR white, i think it's probably extreme but only in one direction. i'd say colorful but that's not saturated enough. i think love is the absolute saturation.

however, love and love alone is only a bi-product of salvation. not a key factor in determining salvation. it's a chicken or the egg sort of thing but love alone wont save us, will it?

Is love only a bi-product of salvation? I think another question would be is what draws us to salvation (or God) in the first place?

No to the first, Romans 2:4 to the second. (edit: just realised this was for sleep of reason to answer, sorry)

When we marry someone, do we sign the contract first and then fall in love with them or do we fall in love first and then sign the contract? Which sounds more realistic or true?

Most see love in the eros romantic attraction sense, hence "falling in love". I see your point though regarding what you were responding to.

I think your questions also raise further questions about marriage itself. What is marriage? Should we take a social understanding which involves legal constructs and ceremonies, or a more theological understanding based on male and female coming together as one, or perhaps both? A second question to ask is which would be seen as more important to God?

[frankbaginski]

Great subject -

I think only through love did God create beings with free will. I cannot conceive of another driving force which would allow that to happen. Of course we do not know God completely but in our limited sense I have to believe this.

Paul spoke of love and the power of it. Between him and Daniel I find a real connection with me.( I am not saying I am like them )

As for husband and wife, I think we are made incomplete and only through marriage do we find a whole. We are driven to this but many, including myself, fall short of marrying for the right reasons. Our drive in marriage can be misused just like drive for the rest of the things in life. Security, comfort, etc.

It is not easy to see through this tangled web of fleshly desires and keep focused on the important things in our existance. The mere fact that we have free will and are set in the ultimate test is a testament of God's love. We are given a stage to determine for ourselves if we wish to accept the ultimate gift. Without love God could have created robots to do His will. We are not robots but many will choose to go the wrong way. Those that decide the right path and then help others do the same are blessed. We are doing God's work with our free will. Evil is a part of existance due to free will. Those who place God as responsible for evil just don't get it. Those who say He should remove evil don't understand that free will would go as well.

Anyway just some comments, would love to hear what you think.

[Gman]

I think your questions also raise further questions about marriage itself. What is marriage? Should we take a social understanding which involves legal constructs and ceremonies, or a more theological understanding based on male and female coming together as one, or perhaps both? A second question to ask is which would be seen as more important to God?

It's a tougher question but I believe it involves an issue of the heart. Meaning that in our hearts we can make the commitment. It can be further punctuated by signing a legal document. I would believe God would see it this way to, but I can't speak for Him...

[Gman]

Great subject -

I think only through love did God create beings with free will. I cannot conceive of another driving force which would allow that to happen. Of course we do not know God completely but in our limited sense I have to believe this.

Paul spoke of love and the power of it. Between him and Daniel I find a real connection with me.( I am not saying I am like them )

As for husband and wife, I think we are made incomplete and only through marriage do we find a whole. We are driven to this but many, including myself, fall short of marrying for the right reasons. Our drive in marriage can be misused just like drive for the rest of the things in life. Security, comfort, etc.

It is not easy to see through this tangled web of fleshly desires and keep focused on the important things in our existance. The mere fact that we have free will and are set in the ultimate test is a testament of God's love. We are given a stage to determine for ourselves if we wish to accept the ultimate gift. Without love God could have created robots to do His will. We are not robots but many will choose to go the wrong way. Those that decide the right path and then help others do the same are blessed. We are doing God's work with our free will. Evil is a part of existance due to free will. Those who place God as responsible for evil just don't get it. Those who say He should remove evil don't understand that free will would go as well.

Anyway just some comments, would love to hear what you think.

Looks like we see it the same way.. Ultimately, I believe, it is love that is the driving force that draws man to Him.. Man would not be drawn to God nor would he continue in the relationship with Him if love was taken out of the equation.

And how does God draw man to himself? Well I believe Christ set that example. Christ dies for man on the cross, man is then set free John 3:16... No other religion has ever made such a claim....

It's interesting that God choose such a dramatic conclusion to his salvation and how many can't see it... In fact, if you look at the top grossing movies out there, the central theme or plot always revolves around someone dieing for someone else to prove their love to them. Take the movie the Titanic (the top grossing film ever made)... At the end, the poor, lowly, nobody kid dies for the rich girl on a makeshift raft in a cold ocean. He leaves her warm and safe on the raft, but he stays in the cold water to die. Isn't it obvious? There is something intrinsically special in man's heart. We all know what that is, and God knows how to tap into it...

[jenna]

One question here, I'm trolling. How can we truly know we love God? And how can we show God we truly love Him?

[Gman]

One question here, I'm trolling. How can we truly know we love God? And how can we show God we truly love Him?

I believe part of the answer lies in how we treat others...

[jenna]

Yes, this would definitely be one way to show love. This statement is shown in 1John 4:20-21. And one other way to show love for God is found in 1John 5:1-3.

[Gman]

Yes, this would definitely be one way to show love. This statement is shown in 1John 4:20-21. And one other way to show love for God is found in 1John 5:1-3.

Good call... I like it when things are backed up by scripture...

[jenna]

Yes, this would definitely be one way to show love. This statement is shown in 1John 4:20-21. And one other way to show love for God is found in 1John 5:1-3.

Good call... I like it when things are backed up by scripture...

Thank you. But I must correct myself here. Actually the WHOLE BOOK of 1John is talking about showing love toward God and fellow man.

[frankbaginski]

jenwat3,

I think that by doing God's work we are demonstrating our love of God. When a believer receives a new heart then they are driven by the heart. This was the message on the Mount of Olives. If you follow the heart then they can do no wrong in God's eyes. This of course does not mean we get to do what we want, it means just the opposite. It means we are doing God's work and not our own.

[JCSx2]

Gods Love for us BROUGHT us salivation, brought us Grace, brought us Eternal Life through the Grace of God.

If God did not love us, I think that we would have been erased when Adam and Eve fell.

Like

“Oh they ate the forbidden fruit. Lets start over with new creations.”

Being loved by God was there from the get go.

[jenna]

No argument from me on this! If God did not love us He would never have given us a second chance by having Christ die for us. (The ever-familiar John 3:16)

[oscarsiziba]

John 14 v15:If ye love me, keep my commandments.
1 James 2 v6:He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
The commandments can be summarized by only two-supreme love for God(Commandment number 1-4) and equal love for fellow man(Commandment number 5-10).
We love because He(GOD) first loved us and by loving Him supremely and our neighbours as selves we would have reflected His image.

[madscientist]

So what is this about... whether love came first or salvation does? Love was there first, before God created us. At least that is what I heard... thing is, we didnt know this since we werent alive yet. And when we're saved then it's due to God's love...
Again referring to free will concept... Why would not He be able to display His love to us if we were robots? Because we would not be able to feel the opposite, non-love or hate, and hence not able to appreciate love? Once in heaven we are not able to choose evil (or we are but never choose it which is a paradox ) so will we be able to feel His love then? I hope we will, but what then about beings which never had a taste of free will & evil - e.g. angels etc who are purely spiritual beings, or, those who died before accountability age and were unable to express their love or lack of it? A significant free will problem there...