Jacob and Esau

[JCSx2]

The story of Jacob and Esau bothers me.

Help me to understand why Jacob being a conniving cheating little brother gets to Rule his brother (yes I understand that it was foretold) Besides it being foretold, why was Jacob able to get away with doing this?

The first instance where Esau traded his birthright for his dinner I understand that Esau did not have very much respect for his birthright, yea he deserved to loose it.

Now for his Blessing from Isaac, Both the Mother Rebekah and Jacob were in on this scam. They planned and carried out a devious method to cheat their Father and husband (Isaac) in to Blessing Jacob. In verse 20 Jacob says “Because the LORD your God brought it to me.” To me this is like taking the Lords name in vain, using the Lords name to steal.

What's up with this, please help me to understand this better.
Genesis 25:29-34

29 Now Jacob cooked a stew; and Esau came in from the field, and he was weary. 30 And Esau said to Jacob, “Please feed me with that same red stew, for I am weary.” Therefore his name was called Edom.[d]
31 But Jacob said, “Sell me your birthright as of this day.”
32 And Esau said, “Look, I am about to die; so what is this birthright to me?”
33 Then Jacob said, “Swear to me as of this day.”
So he swore to him, and sold his birthright to Jacob.
34 And Jacob gave Esau bread and stew of lentils; then he ate and drank, arose, and went his way. Thus Esau despised his birthright.


Genesis 27:1- 29
1 Now it came to pass, when Isaac was old and his eyes were so dim that he could not see, that he called Esau his older son and said to him, “My son.”
And he answered him, “Here I am.”
2 Then he said, “Behold now, I am old. I do not know the day of my death. 3 Now therefore, please take your weapons, your quiver and your bow, and go out to the field and hunt game for me. 4 And make me savory food, such as I love, and bring it to me that I may eat, that my soul may bless you before I die.”
5 Now Rebekah was listening when Isaac spoke to Esau his son. And Esau went to the field to hunt game and to bring it. 6 So Rebekah spoke to Jacob her son, saying, “Indeed I heard your father speak to Esau your brother, saying, 7 'Bring me game and make savory food for me, that I may eat it and bless you in the presence of the LORD before my death.' 8 Now therefore, my son, obey my voice according to what I command you. 9 Go now to the flock and bring me from there two choice kids of the goats, and I will make savory food from them for your father, such as he loves. 10 Then you shall take it to your father, that he may eat it, and that he may bless you before his death.”
11 And Jacob said to Rebekah his mother, “Look, Esau my brother is a hairy man, and I am a smooth-skinned man. 12 Perhaps my father will feel me, and I shall seem to be a deceiver to him; and I shall bring a curse on myself and not a blessing.”
13 But his mother said to him, “Let your curse be on me, my son; only obey my voice, and go, get them for me.” 14 And he went and got them and brought them to his mother, and his mother made savory food, such as his father loved. 15 Then Rebekah took the choice clothes of her elder son Esau, which were with her in the house, and put them on Jacob her younger son. 16 And she put the skins of the kids of the goats on his hands and on the smooth part of his neck. 17 Then she gave the savory food and the bread, which she had prepared, into the hand of her son Jacob.
18 So he went to his father and said, “My father.”
And he said, “Here I am. Who are you, my son?”
19 Jacob said to his father, “I am Esau your firstborn; I have done just as you told me; please arise, sit and eat of my game, that your soul may bless me.”
20 But Isaac said to his son, “How is it that you have found it so quickly, my son?”
And he said, “Because the LORD your God brought it to me.”
21 Isaac said to Jacob, “Please come near, that I may feel you, my son, whether you are really my son Esau or not.” 22 So Jacob went near to Isaac his father, and he felt him and said, “The voice is Jacob's voice, but the hands are the hands of Esau.” 23 And he did not recognize him, because his hands were hairy like his brother Esau's hands; so he blessed him.
24 Then he said, “Are you really my son Esau?”
He said, “I am.”
25 He said, “Bring it near to me, and I will eat of my son's game, so that my soul may bless you.” So he brought it near to him, and he ate; and he brought him wine, and he drank. 26 Then his father Isaac said to him, “Come near now and kiss me, my son.” 27 And he came near and kissed him; and he smelled the smell of his clothing, and blessed him and said:

“ Surely, the smell of my son
Is like the smell of a field
Which the LORD has blessed.
28 Therefore may God give you
Of the dew of heaven,
Of the fatness of the earth,
And plenty of grain and wine.
29 Let peoples serve you,
And nations bow down to you.
Be master over your brethren,
And let your mother's sons bow down to you.
Cursed be everyone who curses you,
And blessed be those who bless you!”

[Cross.eyed]

GOD planned for them before birth (25:21).
Jacob and Esau were at enmity before birth(25:22-23).
GOD will work out his purpose with or without human deception(25:23)

I got this from a Bible commentary which were the parts where I agreed with the author.
Another thing, it doesn't seem to me that GOD had partnered with any of the deception, but HE had taken human sin and turned it to HIS good. In other words, the sin was upon Rebekah and Jacob but not GOD.
I hope this is of some help.

[FFC]

GOD planned for them before birth (25:21).
Jacob and Esau were at enmity before birth(25:22-23).
GOD will work out his purpose with or without human deception(25:23)

I got this from a Bible commentary which were the parts where I agreed with the author.
Another thing, it doesn't seem to me that GOD had partnered with any of the deception, but HE had taken human sin and turned it to HIS good. In other words, the sin was upon Rebekah and Jacob but not GOD.
I hope this is of some help.

I agree. Although It was foretold...I think that God likes to do things the hard way to show how great He is. God wants us to to know that Despite the circumstances whatever He wills will be done. Fair or not, God even uses the sins of others to accomplish His will sometimes.

[zoegirl]

GOD planned for them before birth (25:21).
Jacob and Esau were at enmity before birth(25:22-23).
GOD will work out his purpose with or without human deception(25:23)

I got this from a Bible commentary which were the parts where I agreed with the author.
Another thing, it doesn't seem to me that GOD had partnered with any of the deception, but HE had taken human sin and turned it to HIS good. In other words, the sin was upon Rebekah and Jacob but not GOD.
I hope this is of some help.

I agree. Although It was foretold...I think that God likes to do things the hard way to show how great He is. God wants us to to know that Despite the circumstances whatever He wills will be done. Fair or not, God even uses the sins of others to accomplish His will sometimes.

Good points,

If you read through the life of Jacob, his life shows hos God can work through a person even in His time, though it may like Jacob "got away with" things, God choose in His time to conquer Jacob. There is an amazing description in scripture of Jacob wrestling with God and I think it a great reflection of all of us. We may think that Jacob was this conniver and deceiver and yet who among us doesn't try to decieve and do things our way and with ourselves in mind.

In this way, I think Jacob is a great picture of God's power over our sinful nature and ability to sanctify us as well as His patience.

Also, as has been pointed out, Jacob's sin had tremendous consequence, broken relationships with Leah (poor leah!!), Laban, and especially Esau, who shows remarkable forgiveness with his brother. You see a soul that fights God throughout his life with Jacob.

May we learn from this to submit to God let him wrestle with us in whatever manner to bring us to Him!!! We are all connivers and tricksters in some manner!!

[JCSx2]

GOD planned for them before birth (25:21).
Jacob and Esau were at enmity before birth(25:22-23).
GOD will work out his purpose with or without human deception(25:23)

I got this from a Bible commentary which were the parts where I agreed with the author.
Another thing, it doesn't seem to me that GOD had partnered with any of the deception, but HE had taken human sin and turned it to HIS good. In other words, the sin was upon Rebekah and Jacob but not GOD.
I hope this is of some help.

I agree. Although It was foretold...I think that God likes to do things the hard way to show how great He is. God wants us to to know that Despite the circumstances whatever He wills will be done. Fair or not, God even uses the sins of others to accomplish His will sometimes.

Good points,

If you read through the life of Jacob, his life shows hos God can work through a person even in His time, though it may like Jacob "got away with" things, God choose in His time to conquer Jacob. There is an amazing description in scripture of Jacob wrestling with God and I think it a great reflection of all of us. We may think that Jacob was this conniver and deceiver and yet who among us doesn't try to decieve and do things our way and with ourselves in mind.

In this way, I think Jacob is a great picture of God's power over our sinful nature and ability to sanctify us as well as His patience.

Also, as has been pointed out, Jacob's sin had tremendous consequence, broken relationships with Leah (poor leah!!), Laban, and especially Esau, who shows remarkable forgiveness with his brother. You see a soul that fights God throughout his life with Jacob.

May we learn from this to submit to God let him wrestle with us in whatever manner to bring us to Him!!! We are all connivers and tricksters in some manner!!

No doubt, I have in my time done many things that could be considered worse that what Jacob did. I read about his life last night, the forgiveness that Esau gave him hit me hard.
New question........

What was the point of the Idols being taken?

In Genesis (31:19) Rachel stole Laban's idols, Laban chased after them and searched for them, could not find them due to Rachel hiding them (Genesis 31:34), Jacob was not aware they were stolen (Genesis 31:32)

What was the point of this?

They made a covenant to each other afterwards, Jacob and Laban (Genesis 31: 43-50)

I am failing to see the point of this chain of events.

BTW I made a New Years resolution to read the Bible from Cover to cover this year. So I will have more questions in the future for some things I have read before but never had anyone to bounce my questions off of.

Thank God for this forum.

[LadyJane]

You asked

What was the point of the Idols being taken?

In Genesis (31:19) Rachel stole Laban's idols, Laban chased after them and searched for them, could not find them due to Rachel hiding them (Genesis 31:34), Jacob was not aware they were stolen (Genesis 31:32)

What was the point of this?

I don't know if this will help, but I remember reading somewhere long ago that the idols had to do with inheritance of the family wealth. So if Rachel had the idols, then she (or her husband, Jacob) would be entitled to inherit Laban's estate when he died. (Or possibly even directly from Laban's father, bypassing Laban??)

Sorry, but I don't have a reference for this, nor can I vouch for it's accuracy...

[Kurieuo]

You asked

What was the point of the Idols being taken?

In Genesis (31:19) Rachel stole Laban's idols, Laban chased after them and searched for them, could not find them due to Rachel hiding them (Genesis 31:34), Jacob was not aware they were stolen (Genesis 31:32)

What was the point of this?

I don't know if this will help, but I remember reading somewhere long ago that the idols had to do with inheritance of the family wealth. So if Rachel had the idols, then she (or her husband, Jacob) would be entitled to inherit Laban's estate when he died. (Or possibly even directly from Laban's father, bypassing Laban??)

Sorry, but I don't have a reference for this, nor can I vouch for it's accuracy...

Hi Jane... welcome to the discussions...

[JCSx2]

You asked

What was the point of the Idols being taken?

In Genesis (31:19) Rachel stole Laban's idols, Laban chased after them and searched for them, could not find them due to Rachel hiding them (Genesis 31:34), Jacob was not aware they were stolen (Genesis 31:32)

What was the point of this?

I don't know if this will help, but I remember reading somewhere long ago that the idols had to do with inheritance of the family wealth. So if Rachel had the idols, then she (or her husband, Jacob) would be entitled to inherit Laban's estate when he died. (Or possibly even directly from Laban's father, bypassing Laban??)

Sorry, but I don't have a reference for this, nor can I vouch for it's accuracy...

Hi Jane... welcome to the discussions...

Yes welcome

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

LadyJane is speaking of the Nuzi Tablets found in Northern Mesopotamia, quote:

...If Nashwi has a son of his own, he shall divide the estate equally with Wullu*, but the son of Nashwi shall take the gods of Nashwi. However, if Nashwi does not have a son of his own, then Wullu shall take the gods of Nashwi...

FL

*Wullu is a girl

[frankbaginski]

Hi all,

I heard the idols were markers for the property as well. Something about mounds being at the property boundary and somehow the idols were connected to them to show ownership.

Chuck Missler in his commentary on Genesis goes over this.