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Usury, Interest, Jesus, Moses
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:35 pm
by AttentionKMartShoppers
So, during the 5 minute "history of interest" my finance teacher went through, she mentioned that Moses, Jesus, the Koran, and a Hindu book starting with a V condemn usury. I'm not quite interested in the last two, but I was curious if anyone who is any good at reading the Bible with more than what feels like a 5th grade understanding had to say about it. I don't know if the Bible makes the distinction between usury and interest, either. Eventually I think I'll go to seminary just so I can read the Bible...
Re: Usury, Interest, Jesus, Moses
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:21 pm
by B. W.
AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:So, during the 5 minute "history of interest" my finance teacher went through, she mentioned that Moses, Jesus, the Koran, and a Hindu book starting with a V condemn usury. I'm not quite interested in the last two, but I was curious if anyone who is any good at reading the Bible with more than what feels like a 5th grade understanding had to say about it. I don't know if the Bible makes the distinction between usury and interest, either. Eventually I think I'll go to seminary just so I can read the Bible...
The history of interest — how interesting???
I think the history of interest goes way back — Adam saw Eve for the first time and was very-very interested. She took one look at him and said, “He's interesting but I won't give him the time of day unless he first takes out the garbage, mows Eden, makes a nice fur out that Mink he just named — then I maybe interested — just maybe...”
So from this we see how interest became a principle that can be compounded daily reaching the insurmountable heights that usury demands....
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Re: Usury, Interest, Jesus, Moses
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:02 am
by Furstentum Liechtenstein
AttentionKMartShoppers wrote: Hindu book starting with a V
That would be the Vedas, or vedic litterature....crap, in other words.
AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:my finance teacher went through, she mentioned that Moses, Jesus, the Koran, and a Hindu book starting with a V condemn usury.
Moses did forbid interest among Jews, if the borrower was poor...see Lev 25:36-37. This is repeated in Dt 23:19, and in the next verse (v20) Moses says it's OK to charge interest to a non-Jew.
As for usury, you'll find a story in Nehemiah 5 and Ezekiel 18 about that. Basically, usury is condemned.
FL
Re: Usury, Interest, Jesus, Moses
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:22 pm
by cslewislover
I've been reading Ezekiel and wondered about this too. I couldn't remember what I had read about usury before. CS Lewis had a comment on it somewhere, but it's not in Mere Theology, unfortunately. Anyway, I'll quote what Smith's Bible Dictionary says about it (p 723):
"Usury. (The word usury has come in modern English to mean excessive interest upon money loaned, either formally illegal or at least oppressive. In the Scriptures, however, the word did not bear this sense, but meant simply interest of any kind upon money. The Jews were forbidden by the law of Moses to take interest from their brethren, but were permitted to take it from foreigners. The prohibition grew out of the agricultural status of the people, in which ordinary business loans were not needed, and such loans as were required should be made only as to friends and brothers in need. -- Ed.) The practice of mortgaging land, sometimes at exorbitant interest, grew up among the Jews during the captivity, in direct violation of the law. Lev 25:36, 37; Ezek 18:8, 13, 17. We find the rate reaching 1 in 100 per month, corresponding to the Roman centesimae usurae, or 12 per cent. per annum."
In Mac Donald's Believer's Bible Commentary (Nelson), he comments on Leviticus (but not Ezekiel): "If an Israelite fell into debt and poverty, his Jewish creditors were not to oppress him. They were not to charge him interest on money or demand additional food for food that was lent" (p 153).
The Expositor's Bible Commentary (V.6, FE Gaebelein. Zondervan) comments on Ezekiel (p 826):
" . . . he did not oppress people through maltreatment and extortion but rather restored the pledge of a poor person's debt (v. 7a; forbidden in Exod 22:26-27; Deut 24:6; Amos 2:8). The wealthy took advantage of the poor, especially finding orphans, widows, and strangers easy prey for their extortion schemes. . . . refusing to take interest from his fellow Israelites (v 8a; forbidden in Exod22:25; Deut 23:19-20; Ps 15:5; Isa 24:2). . . . Interest could be charged foreigners in commercial relations, but it was contrary to the principle of love and concern for one of the covenant people to profit from a poor fellow Hebrew by extorting interest on charitable loans."
What's a "charitable loan"? Yeah, I don't like the last commentary very much, but that's what I have at home here, so . . . If you have any other comments, that'd be great. An additional thought: I never hear anyone say that we should pray for our country regarding this issue (I hadn't thought about it myself lately). We are not a theocracy, but we could pray for more ethical practices and justice in this regard. A lot of our economic problems have to do with usury and greed, right? Just wondering about this.
Re: Usury, Interest, Jesus, Moses
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:40 pm
by Zebulon
cslewislover wrote:
What's a "charitable loan"? Yeah, I don't like the last commentary very much, but that's what I have at home here, so . . . If you have any other comments, that'd be great. An additional thought: I never hear anyone say that we should pray for our country regarding this issue (I hadn't thought about it myself lately). We are not a theocracy, but we could pray for more ethical practices and justice in this regard. A lot of our economic problems have to do with usury and greed, right? Just wondering about this.
You are a very beautifull person cslewislover. You have wisdom and heart.
While I am writing this to you my wife came in and asked me:
What are U up to?
Ho! did I reply, I am telling this guy that I love him.
She looked at the URL I was in to and said:
godandscience dot org?
- Tell them they are full of God and that they just do not know it.
I think she knew. If you talk about Jesus or God to her, she will look in your eyes. Thats it.
I am amazed sometimes when I see people who speaks and communicates in many languages. My wife can speak to deaf people, she masters the sign language, she masters the mongol or Trisomic 21 language, she masters the 6 foot tall guy who just got out of prison and thinks he gets all but with her 5 foot 4, he will melt. You are like her. Simple experience of what I have learned.
Just my 2 cents.
Re: Usury, Interest, Jesus, Moses
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:50 pm
by cslewislover
Awws, how sweet of you! About me (awws, thanks!), and your wife! 
It's actually really helpful to hear that right now; may the Lord bless and keep you both 
Re: Usury, Interest, Jesus, Moses
Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:49 am
by Zebulon
cslewislover wrote:t's actually really helpful to hear that right now; may the Lord bless and keep you both
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Thanks. I went to look at your profile again and read this line: ...its complicated ... as for your relationship or marriage.
I have been through this kind of situation before and probably some other people here to. I know it is not easy. I believe in the saying that If you know the problem or the concern of a situation then it is started to be resolved (it says 50%). Hopefully you have close relations to talk to. I have had a very difficult childhood and I have been lucky to have people who listened to me. Mostly I was lucky to have been able to talk about it even if it did not resolve the whole thing as quick as I would have like it. To me this is very important.
Zebulon
Re: Usury, Interest, Jesus, Moses
Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:49 am
by cslewislover
OK. This is way off topic now 
Your attitude is wonderful, Zebulon. I was debating whether I should respond at all, and if so, what to say. It's obviously true that I put that entry on my profile, so . . . In a nutshell, I've been in a loveless marriage for a long time, and walking around half-dead for quite a while too. I feel I tried my hardest in the situation I've been in, but my hardest wasn't good enough. So, just lately I've felt that the Lord let me know that it isn't necessary for me to be like this the rest of my life, though I don't know exactly what I'm doing. With my personality, I believe it's only due to the Lord keeping me that I've made it this far without dying from depression or something. Anyway, it's hard to talk about it generally (though I do have a couple of close friends I talk to) since I feel both ashamed (as a Christian) and judged (by people who don't know).
There's this verse I found: "David said to Gad, 'I am in deep distress. Let me fall into the hands of the Lord, for his mercy is very great; but do not let me fall into the hands of men.'" (1 Ch 21:13)
Lol. I'm with David here. Amen. (PS: I'd prefer not to receive pms about this. Thanks)
Re: Usury, Interest, Jesus, Moses
Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:51 am
by Cross.eyed
B. W. wrote:AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:So, during the 5 minute "history of interest" my finance teacher went through, she mentioned that Moses, Jesus, the Koran, and a Hindu book starting with a V condemn usury. I'm not quite interested in the last two, but I was curious if anyone who is any good at reading the Bible with more than what feels like a 5th grade understanding had to say about it. I don't know if the Bible makes the distinction between usury and interest, either. Eventually I think I'll go to seminary just so I can read the Bible...
The history of interest — how interesting???
I think the history of interest goes way back — Adam saw Eve for the first time and was very-very interested. She took one look at him and said, “He's interesting but I won't give him the time of day unless he first takes out the garbage, mows Eden, makes a nice fur out that Mink he just named — then I maybe interested — just maybe...”
So from this we see how interest became a principle that can be compounded daily reaching the insurmountable heights that usury demands....
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Would I be far off if I thought you have been married for a long time?
Re: Usury, Interest, Jesus, Moses
Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:47 pm
by cslewislover
Lol, thanks 
Re: Usury, Interest, Jesus, Moses
Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:33 pm
by B. W.
Cross.eyed wrote:B. W. wrote:AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:So, during the 5 minute "history of interest" my finance teacher went through, she mentioned that Moses, Jesus, the Koran, and a Hindu book starting with a V condemn usury. I'm not quite interested in the last two, but I was curious if anyone who is any good at reading the Bible with more than what feels like a 5th grade understanding had to say about it. I don't know if the Bible makes the distinction between usury and interest, either. Eventually I think I'll go to seminary just so I can read the Bible...
The history of interest — how interesting???
I think the history of interest goes way back — Adam saw Eve for the first time and was very-very interested. She took one look at him and said, “He's interesting but I won't give him the time of day unless he first takes out the garbage, mows Eden, makes a nice fur out that Mink he just named — then I maybe interested — just maybe...”
So from this we see how interest became a principle that can be compounded daily reaching the insurmountable heights that usury demands....
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Would I be far off if I thought you have been married for a long time?
20 years so far!
Men - always take time for your wife and family and always take out the garbage without being asked
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Re: Usury, Interest, Jesus, Moses
Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:39 pm
by B. W.
cslewislover wrote:Lol, thanks
You have my support and prayers!
...and no one better condemn you
or else
to them...
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Re: Usury, Interest, Jesus, Moses
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:43 am
by cslewislover
Awws, you guys are great. Thanks! 
. It is going often like this in most of the topics on this site anyway... and this is perhaps what makes this site so wonderfull (blink to Kurieuo).
. (I see baseball bats over my head from fundamentalist for saying this