Clean and unclean foods

[oscarsiziba]

I perceive those food laws are still binding,what do you think?

[Ashley]

I remember some passages in Leviticus food must be cooked. I was told the Jews weren't knowledgeable about the hygience so God told them how to avoid viral infection out of eating uncooked food.

what do you think?

.

[Katabole]

Well, some Christians believe that the law is done away with. Others believe it is still binding. This is what Jesus says about the law:

Matt 5:17, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (KJV)

18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The word "jot" there in this verse is this Greek word:

2503
iwta
iota
ee-o'-tah
of Hebrew origin (the tenth letter of the Hebrew alphabet); "iota", the name of the eighth letter of the Greek alphabet, put (figuratively) for a very small part of anything:--jot.

So Jesus didn't destroy the law, not one (Iota or the smallest part of it) and heaven and earth have not passed away so the law would still be binding.

Many can't distinguish between a Biblical law, statute(commandment), judgement or ordinance. The ordinances were done away with. Not so the commandments, judgements or law.

Col 2:14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Some have misunderstood Acts chapter 10 where Peter sees a vision of unclean meats, believing that it is speaking of food. It is not. It is speaking of the Gentile nations, not food. Peter never ate anything that was offered to him, even though he was hungry.

Acts 10:15, And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Acts 10:28, And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

But this is what is said about unclean foods:

Isa 65:4, Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

Isa 65:5, Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

Isa 66:17, They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Doing these abominations, including eating the flesh of swine(pigs) is like smoke up God's nose as Isa 65:5 states. Why? Because God knows people who eat these creatures are going to make themselves sick when they are supposed to treat their bodies with holiness. God is angry because the pig along with other animals that God lists in the Old Testament law, were never created to be eaten.

Newer translations have added to this confusion of what to eat or what not to eat. Compare these two verses; the first from the NIV, the second from the KJV:

Mk 7:17, After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18"Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") (NIV)

Mk 7:17, And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable. (KJV)

18, And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; (KJV)

19, Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? (KJV)

If you notice the NIV adds the phrase in quotations, (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") That is not in the original text and was deliberately added when it should not have been and the reason I stress that Christians stick to the KJV.

The subject was handwashing, not unclean meats. The Pharisees were claiming the disciples were unclean by not washing their hands. It has nothing to do with them eating unclean foods. And Jesus certainly didn't declare all foods clean. God created certain animals to be eaten and others not to be. The pig for example, is an unclean animal. It was never meant to be consumed. It's purpose was to clean up the dirt of the earth like any scavenger animal and there are quite a few listed in the Old Testament. The animals listed are either scavengers, animals that eat their own kind or animals that eat their own dung. It doesn't matter what these animals are fed, even if it's grain and corn. Eating those animals would only lead to the person who consumed them, eventually becoming sick. God knows what animals he created for the purpose of eating and remaining healthy.

Others will claim what is said in Timothy is claiming that all foods are clean but this is what it says:

1Tim 4:3, Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4, For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

God didn't create certain meats to be "received" with thanksgiving. If it is ok to eat, then it should be received with thanksgiving. But the owl, the rabbit, the dog, the cat, the seagull etc, were not created to be eaten.

Yes, every creature of God's is good. There were just specific creatures He specifies in the "law" that were not to be eaten.

From a personal point of view, I haven't eaten a piece of bacon, a pork chop or pork roast in 15 years and I haven't gotten a cold or been ill in thoe 15 years. When I was young I used to eat rabbits but now I stick to the Biblical food laws. God knows what foods keep you healthy and what foods make you sick. It is written in the law.

Hope that helps.

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm

[catherine]

Hi Katabole, I've just been reading your post and before I mention some points I'd like to discuss, could I ask if you also don't eat animal blood, e.g black pudding, oxo cubes, stuff like that?

[catherine]

Katabole, I just need to clarify this: you say that we still aren't allowed to eat certain animals. Does this mean you believe we should be keeping ALL of the law, the Law that was a foreshadow of the New Covenant?

[oscarsiziba]

Katabole, I just need to clarify this: you say that we still aren't allowed to eat certain animals. Does this mean you believe we should be keeping ALL of the law, the Law that was a foreshadow of the New Covenant?

How many laws exist in the Bible,before i can assist?

[Katabole]

Hi Catherine.

I know many believe what is said in Romans trumps the law:

Rom 6:14, For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (KJV)

A study of the context will confirm Paul is talking about the law of sin and death not Biblical law in general.

Basically the law of sin and death means that if we sin, we will die. Because of the grace of God through the death and resurrection of Jesus, genuine Christians are free from the death penalty of the broken law. That doesn't mean Biblical law is done away with or that we aren't expected to keep it.

I can only go by what the Word says. Not what traditions teach or what I believe in my heart.

Here is a link that should help explain. I believe the food laws belong to the non-ceremonial category of Biblical law.

http://www.free-bible-study-lessons.com ... w-201.html

Hope that helps.

[oscarsiziba]

.

The word "jot" there in this verse is this Greek word:
Doing these abominations, including eating the flesh of swine(pigs) is like smoke up God's nose as Isa 65:5 states. Why? Because God knows people who eat these creatures are going to make themselves sick when they are supposed to treat their bodies with holiness. God is angry because the pig along with other animals that God lists in the Old Testament law, were never created to be eaten.

Newer translations have added to this confusion of what to eat or what not to eat. Compare these two verses; the first from the NIV, the second from the KJV:

Mk 7:17, After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18"Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") (NIV)

Mk 7:17, And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable. (KJV)

18, And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; (KJV)

19, Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? (KJV)

If you notice the NIV adds the phrase in quotations, (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") That is not in the original text and was deliberately added when it should not have been and the reason I stress that Christians stick to the KJV.

The subject was handwashing, not unclean meats. The Pharisees were claiming the disciples were unclean by not washing their hands. It has nothing to do with them eating unclean foods. And Jesus certainly didn't declare all foods clean. God created certain animals to be eaten and others not to be. The pig for example, is an unclean animal. It was never meant to be consumed. It's purpose was to clean up the dirt of the earth like any scavenger animal and there are quite a few listed in the Old Testament. The animals listed are either scavengers, animals that eat their own kind or animals that eat their own dung. It doesn't matter what these animals are fed, even if it's grain and corn. Eating those animals would only lead to the person who consumed them, eventually becoming sick. God knows what animals he created for the purpose of eating and remaining healthy.

Others will claim what is said in Timothy is claiming that all foods are clean but this is what it says:

1Tim 4:3, Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4, For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

God didn't create certain meats to be "received" with thanksgiving. If it is ok to eat, then it should be received with thanksgiving. But the owl, the rabbit, the dog, the cat, the seagull etc, were not created to be eaten.

Yes, every creature of God's is good. There were just specific creatures He specifies in the "law" that were not to be eaten.

From a personal point of view, I haven't eaten a piece of bacon, a pork chop or pork roast in 15 years and I haven't gotten a cold or been ill in thoe 15 years. When I was young I used to eat rabbits but now I stick to the Biblical food laws. God knows what foods keep you healthy and what foods make you sick. It is written in the law.

Hope that helps.

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm[/quote]

Besides the health concern that goes with this is the test of obedience.God does not ask for obedience on grounds of logic,but faith and trust.He bids us trust and hope in the very adverse conditions to His demands(whose aim is to give us happiness and an endless hope.

[catherine]

Hi Katabole and Oscarsiziba,
I've read the link you provided Katabole and may I recommend this one to you: http://www.sundoulos.com/biblical.aspx?in=3
It isn't too long an article and shows very clearly how and why we are no longer under the Mosaic Law.

[B. W.]

Well, I guess it comes down to this:

Are you saved because you keep the dietary laws?

Or by Christ finished work on the cross?

Some of you believe in annihilationism so therefore — eat a ham sandwich and you are doomed!

Eating bacon can lead to a heart attack as does eating kosher lamb and beef…so don't eat meat and take supplements. Better yet — not eat at all. Just kidding…

Anyway let me get back to the point — what saves? Law or Christ?

Which binds burdens too hard to bear on backs of the people? The Law or Christ?

Or which binds burdens too hard to bear on backs of the people? Liberal progressives legislating what thou shall eat or not eat, wear or not wear, what you can or not own, how much you owe taxes or not owe? What saves — this new Phariseeism or Christ?

Most here would declare that Christ saves and the law cannot, yet, people are still told to hold fast to the dietary laws. Makes no sense…

If you want to hold too the dietary laws that is your prerogative but do not be fooled that that alone can save you from sin or keep you saved either. -
-
-

[Katabole]

No, I know the dietary laws or won't save a person. They weren't given to save. They were given so that a flesh body would remain healthy. I also know the law cannot save a person. Only Christ can save. When Jesus died, he did not change the physiology of creatures that had already been created that God commanded not to eat.

Lev 11:7, And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

Dt 14:8, And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

Other examples are listed in Lev 11, of animals that humans were not to eat.

I keep the dietary laws because I know God knows what creatures He created for humans to eat or not to eat.

[oscarsiziba]

Hi Katabole and Oscarsiziba,
I've read the link you provided Katabole and may I recommend this one to you: http://www.sundoulos.com/biblical.aspx?in=3
It isn't too long an article and shows very clearly how and why we are no longer under the Mosaic Law.

I get you Catherine,but do you recognize that all the mess we are in today is a result of Adam and Eve EATING THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT.If they were chased from the garden for just eating as most of us say,do you think that the matter of salvation that came because man had eaten the forbidden,does not ,this day,encapsulate the same issue of food?God sent Jesus to save us because we had eaten and can you say eating has nothing to do with salvation?If indeed it had nothing to do, then would God have had His Son die just bcoz we ate the forbidden?
Will continue.

[catherine]

Hi Oscarsiziba, your understanding of the 'first sin' that was committed by the first humans is one I have never come across!! Adam and Eve were disobedient, they did something God told them not to. I don't even know for sure if the tree is a literal tree, although I do accept that it is, I am open to the possibility it may be symbolic. Anyway, the fact that the tree represents Good and evil is a clue to all this, not the 'act of eating' which is what I think you are suggesting. Correct me if I am wrong. It could even be argued that they sinned prior to the actual act of eating, in that they would have to have desired the fruit, or they made a conscious choice to disobey God - Jesus tells us that sin is born in the 'heart' before the actual act itself. Anyway, did you read the link I mentioned. I cannot in all honesty see how anyone who applies the diligence of the Bereans, and who takes into account the whole of the Bible, can still believe we are under the Law. Paul and other scriptures plainly show that Jesus is the 'fulfillment' of that imperfect Law and the new law, or new covenant is superior and perfect. God Bless

[B. W.]

No, I know the dietary laws or won't save a person. They weren't given to save. They were given so that a flesh body would remain healthy. I also know the law cannot save a person. Only Christ can save. When Jesus died, he did not change the physiology of creatures that had already been created that God commanded not to eat.

Lev 11:7, And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

Dt 14:8, And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

Other examples are listed in Lev 11, of animals that humans were not to eat.

I keep the dietary laws because I know God knows what creatures He created for humans to eat or not to eat.

But also recall what Paul wrote on this matter:

Romans 14:1-16, "As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him"... ESV

Romans 14:13-16, "Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. 15 For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. 16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. " ESV
-
-
-

[jenna]

B.W., the verses you gave don't apply to clean and unclean foods. They apply to fasting, and the eating of food that had been sacrificed to animals.