Evidence for God from Science

On this website http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... abuse.html (:)), it is stated that survey after survey Christians are happier, live longer,...

However, this survey only takes into account a certain population: a cross-section of an American population. I fear that if we conducted this same survey in the slums of the Phillipines, more people would report that they are not so happy and stats would reveal that they don't live longer than, say, non-Christians. They might state that they are just as happy,... but objectively, how can be so happy when you cannot feed yourself everyday? If they did say that they are, this is definite evidence that they have been brainwashed. No one would state this without being brainwashed.

So, if one convinces through brainwashing that these miserable situations and conditions are ok as they will be getting in the future a reward, then who can explain to me why wealthier and healthier Christians should be getting the same treatment? It seems that some have to suffer more than others?

That's pretty unfair to me.

I doubt that a god would be that unfair.

I looked at your link, and could not find any reference to Christians living longer and being happier than non-christians. Please elaborate?

atheistlover wrote:On this website http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... abuse.html (:)), it is stated that survey after survey Christians are happier, live longer,...

I saw only one survey from North Carolina University.

However, this survey only takes into account a certain population: a cross-section of an American population. I fear that if we conducted this same survey in the slums of the Phillipines, more people would report that they are not so happy and stats would reveal that they don't live longer than, say, non-Christians. They might state that they are just as happy,... but objectively, how can be so happy when you cannot feed yourself everyday? If they did say that they are, this is definite evidence that they have been brainwashed. No one would state this without being brainwashed.

If you conducted a survey in any slum conditions persons of faith would most likely be the happier group of their surrounding neighbors. People who believe and practice their faith tend to be less stressed-in short, they have more hope.

So, if one convinces through brainwashing that these miserable situations and conditions are ok as they will be getting in the future a reward, then who can explain to me why wealthier and healthier Christians should be getting the same treatment? It seems that some have to suffer more than others?

I strongly doubt you could brainwash people into believing that squalor is ok. Most Christians think the world is a mess anyway.
In all walks of life there is the more wealthy and the economically challenged. Are you saying that all wealthy people are happier? Are people who are in better health more serene than those with a cold?

That's pretty unfair to me.

How do you judge fairnesss?

I doubt that a god would be that unfair.

What measure do you use to judge " a god "? What basis do you begin with?

Cross.eyed wrote: In all walks of life there is the more wealthy and the economically challenged. Are you saying that all wealthy people are happier? Are people who are in better health more serene than those with a cold?

Good point. According to Mother Teresa, one of the poorest nations she ever visited was the United States. She stated that it was spiritually poor....

In Political Science we looked at a survey at which employees are the happiest...clergy(of any religion) was number one and teachers were number two. We've also done a study on how money doesn't make you happy, it only relieves some stressers, but then other stresses will bring a rich or poor person down the same way. Notice Clergy and Teachers usually don't make a whole lot either.

Nigeria tops happiness survey

The survey confirms money does not buy happiness
A new study of more than 65 countries published in the UK's New Scientist magazine suggests that the happiest people in the world live in Nigeria - and the least happy, in Romania.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3157570.stm

http://thehappinessshow.com/HappiestCountries.htm

HAPPINESS AROUND THE WORLD
The happiest
Nigeria
Mexico
Venezuela
El Salvador
Puerto Rico
The least happy
Russia
Armenia
Romania
Source: New Scientist

PATH TO HAPPINESS
Genetic propensity to happiness
Marriage
Make friends and value them
Desire less
Do someone a good turn
Have faith (religious or not)
Stop comparing your looks with others
Earn more money
Grow old gracefully
Don't worry if you're not a genius

DB

while money can't "buy" happiness, money has great potential to make you happy. would you be happy if i gave you 10 billion dollars? yes you would, because you would not have to work another day in your life, and you would be able to buy anything you want. but of course you could still become unhappy by getting into a bad relationship etc

and that survey is completely fail, because i dont see america or britain on that list. and another survey similar to this one said that denmark or something was the happiest, the reason being they drank large amounts of alcohol.

That seems like an odd conclusion - that Denmarkians are happier because they drink too much. Did you get that from the Enquirer?

DB

Markster106 wrote:while money can't "buy" happiness, money has great potential to make you happy. would you be happy if i gave you 10 billion dollars? yes you would, because you would not have to work another day in your life, and you would be able to buy anything you want. but of course you could still become unhappy by getting into a bad relationship etc

Apparently you and I are not on the same page of "happy." 10 billion dollars is less than nothing compared to what God has already given us through His Son Jesus Christ.

...So we wouldn't have to work another day in our life? Work is a gift from God!

...and another survey similar to this one said that denmark or something was the happiest, the reason being they drank large amounts of alcohol.

Yea right, I was a heavy drinker for years, the only thing my friends and I could accomplish was to make ourselves think we were happy. I think this idea belongs in the same place where we tossed our empties.

haha, I guess the adage "always in moderation" can be applied lots of things that make us happy. too much of anything, no matter how good, can turn out bad.

Cross.eyed wrote:

...and another survey similar to this one said that denmark or something was the happiest, the reason being they drank large amounts of alcohol.

Yea right, I was a heavy drinker for years, the only thing my friends and I could accomplish was to make ourselves think we were happy. I think this idea belongs in the same place where we tossed our empties.

Maybe we could say that the people that have the most intense happiest are the ones on cocaine. They would probably win hands down....

well here's what I got from google:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5224306.stm

"Denmark came top, followed closely by Switzerland and Austria. The UK ranked 41st. Zimbabwe and Burundi came bottom. "

and also buddhists are happiest:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3047291.stm

Hi Jorge! Welcome to the board and thanks for the link.

A nation's level of happiness was most closely associated with health levels

This makes sense, healthy people are more active and thus persue a more interesting lifestyle.

Prosperity and education were the next strongest determinants of national happiness.

Education I can understand being a happiness componet provided it is proper i.e. truth. But the prosperity thing I'm not so sure about. We live in the most prosperous nation in history, but yet it seems the majority are always looking for more or something else. Check out the drug and alcohol problems that seem to be on the increase throughout the population at all economic levels. I also have doubts that materialism actually provides the happiness.

There is increasing political interest in using measures of happiness as a national indicator in conjunction with measures of wealth.

[/quote]

Politics in any study causes me concern about the intended outcome. With enough searching there are sometimes a hidden agenda among many of the ones promoting the survey.

I really do believe it is impossible to find true happiness without God and a properly maintained spiritual life. He is the only one who can change us back to our true selves if we are willing to let Him. He takes what we are and continually shapes us back toward the form of what we were originally meant to be. God gives us back our real self. Money, geographic location,possessions, and fame do pale heavily in comparison. You need to look no further than Hollywood for an example.

The closer we get to God the better we become at coping with the pains of life and a greater ability to examine the latest "This will make your life so much better" trend.

As G.K. Chesterton so eloquently stated; "Meaninglessness ultimately comes not from being wary of pain but from being wary of pleasure."

I think we need to realize that no survey can ever really address the multiple facets of "happiness"

First, Any survey would need to be extraordinarily clear concerning their definition of happiness.

Secondly, In fact, if you look at the various examples from scripture, it is clear that we are not exempt from suffering. And Paul exemplifies this; he asked for his thorn in his side removed threes times and was refused. "His grace is sufficient for me"

DOes poverty lead to happiness? poor health? I'd have to say I would not describe my emotions concerning my chronic colitis as happy. However, am I content? IN CHRIST? Absolutely!

It is rather useless to argue and bicker about whose population is happier according to surveys. (and let's face it, there are many people out there who delight in superficial means of happiness)

PErhaps we should turn the discussion to contentment and joy. For solving problems, providing grace and joy in the face of trials and tribulations?

zoegirl wrote:PErhaps we should turn the discussion to contentment and joy. For solving problems, providing grace and joy in the face of trials and tribulations?

You are always so on point zoegirl !

This is the larger part of my point in the above (2) posts. Faithful followers are joyous of not only the world to come, but are more serene even in the face of adversity in the world of which we must live.

It always bothers me when I see Christian brothers and sisters not coping well with every day life.
If we are weaned from "milk" and eating "meat" then the provision of grace and joy begins to mature. No longer do we have to ride the emotional roller coaster.