Evidence for God from Science

I am reading a very interesting book on incorruptible bodies amongst Catholic saints and various holy persons. I was wondering if anyone had any other information on this phenomenon. Without getting into "idolatry", "relic worship", and all of that, it is still amazing that these bodies have survived hundreds of years without any preservation. The book assertes that most of the bodies have passed to this day in the open without embalming or preservation. In some of them it is impossible for the bodies to stay "fresh" even with embalming. Usually they dry out or rot.

To me, it says something about these people's holiness that they would be preserved like this. Clearly it points to God's hand. They often exude blood or oil too, which is both creepy and wierd.

Has anyone seen one of these incorruptible bodies? What is your opinion on this? How can it be explained any other way besides these people have the favor of God? Have non-Catholics been preserved like this ever? Why is it only some of them and not all the saints?

I don't know a lot about this.

Where are they stored? Sometimes those crypts are dry enough to prevent decomposition...maybe a reason?

I wouldn't use the word incorruptible because I have always understood the new incorruptible bodies to be given at Christ's return with the new earth.

Himantolophus wrote:I am reading a very interesting book on incorruptible bodies amongst Catholic saints and various holy persons. I was wondering if anyone had any other information on this phenomenon. Without getting into "idolatry", "relic worship", and all of that, it is still amazing that these bodies have survived hundreds of years without any preservation. The book assertes that most of the bodies have passed to this day in the open without embalming or preservation. In some of them it is impossible for the bodies to stay "fresh" even with embalming. Usually they dry out or rot.

To me, it says something about these people's holiness that they would be preserved like this. Clearly it points to God's hand. They often exude blood or oil too, which is both creepy and wierd.

Has anyone seen one of these incorruptible bodies? What is your opinion on this? How can it be explained any other way besides these people have the favor of God? Have non-Catholics been preserved like this ever? Why is it only some of them and not all the saints?

I am somewhat familiar with the phenomenon as several 'incorruptible' saints hail from my country. I haven't seem them personally but the stories and the miracles attributed to them are as real and as numerous as they can get. Here's a link to Saint Charbel (the front page has links to other saints deemed incorruptible). My first cousin is a priest who serves in a monastery where the body of a beatified monk is laid to rest. My cousin is in charge of keeping the body clean as it is still soft and still sweats to this day, more than 60 years after his death.

I, as a Catholic, would not use this phenomenon as anything indigenous to catholicism as there have been non-catholics as well (and non-Christian, I believe one was a Hindu monk). Catholic or not, I have no doubt that the power of God is evident in it though.

Is there any thought to the reason why God would sustain the bodies this way?

( I certrainly understand that GOd can do whatever He wants...wondering if there is any other reason for God sustaining them?)
other than for His glory

Yeah, various Protestant groups frown on the practice of keeping relics as idol worship and it seems kind of strange to have a dead body laying in a case under the altar. But at the same time, it is amazing that these bodies are hundreds of years old (some up to 800 years old) and they still are entire and are recognizable, especially since most people turn to dust in a hundred years or so. So in part, the veneration of these relics is more of a testament to the power of God and maybe God uses these people as an example of the existence and the power of God to prove His existence to the people doubting their faith. Indeed this was powerful stuff back in the Middle Ages!

Where are they stored? Sometimes those crypts are dry enough to prevent decomposition...maybe a reason?

they clearly state in several of the narratives that the bodies have all of their organs intact and are not coated in any sort of preservative or soaked in a bath. some have been coated recently but many are not at all.
The current shrines may be climate controlled, but the majority were buried for considerable amounts of time in the ground in typical coffins and were later exhumed and found completely intact. Some of the bodies were found in wet ground, which is ideal for decomposition. The fact that some bleed, sweat, and exude oils cannot be explained naturally.

I wouldn't use the word incorruptible because I have always understood the new incorruptible bodies to be given at Christ's return with the new earth.

that's the term the book uses

zoegirl wrote:Is there any thought to the reason why God would sustain the bodies this way?

( I certrainly understand that GOd can do whatever He wants...wondering if there is any other reason for God sustaining them?)
other than for His glory

For His glory is a good enough reason for me. No need to consider any other reason (for me at least).

Byblos wrote:

zoegirl wrote:Is there any thought to the reason why God would sustain the bodies this way?

( I certrainly understand that GOd can do whatever He wants...wondering if there is any other reason for God sustaining them?)
other than for His glory

For His glory is a good enough reason for me. No need to consider any other reason (for me at least).

you're rightl, of course, I just didn't know if there was some official reason for those people to have that sustaining physical change.

zoegirl wrote:you're rightl, of course, I just didn't know if there was some official reason for those people to have that sustaining physical change.

I don't believe there is. The whole thing is thought of as being inexplicable and miraculous, God's hand at work for us to marvel at and to praise His awesome power. I'm certain some day science will have a biological explanation for the phenomenon. Will that diminish God's handy work in any way? Not in my view.

The Exodus, particularly the 10 plagues, were always a source of mystery to me. I recently saw a History channel documentary called The Exodus Decoded. Ordinarily I take everything I see on the History channel with a grain of salt but this documentary was one of the best I've ever seen. It lays out a real, scientific case for the events of the Exodus that left me in awe (including the parting of the Red Sea). Did that change my view of the Exodus miracles, that somehow because they're scientifically explainable they can't be the work of God? Absolutely not. God has always chosen to use our natural surroundings for His purpose. I see a scientific explanation as further proof of His direct, hands-on approach. Truly marvelous.

Byblos wrote:

zoegirl wrote:you're rightl, of course, I just didn't know if there was some official reason for those people to have that sustaining physical change.

I don't believe there is. The whole thing is thought of as being inexplicable and miraculous, God's hand at work for us to marvel at and to praise His awesome power. I'm certain some day science will have a biological explanation for the phenomenon. Will that diminish God's handy work in any way? Not in my view.

The Exodus, particularly the 10 plagues, were always a source of mystery to me. I recently saw a History channel documentary called The Exodus Decoded. Ordinarily I take everything I see on the History channel with a grain of salt but this documentary was one of the best I've ever seen. It lays out a real, scientific case for the events of the Exodus that left me in awe (including the parting of the Red Sea). Did that change my view of the Exodus miracles, that somehow because they're scientifically explainable they can't be the work of God? Absolutely not. God has always chosen to use our natural surroundings for His purpose. I see a scientific explanation as further proof of His direct, hands-on approach. Truly marvelous.

Yes, I would agree...

(I have always challenged my students....what if they somehow DO successfully form some sort of primitive cell in the miller-urey experiment....I doubt they will...but what if they do? Would this negate the existence of God?...anyway...)

I haven't really been exposed to a lot of this...so this is very curious to me. I'm not doubting that God could choose to sustain these bodies....nor am I seeking to "naturalize" the phenomenom. Just typing out loud...wondering what is going on physically.

And whether there could be a physcial reason for the phenomenom. this type of stuff is honestly hard for me to swallow.