Evidence for God from Science

I work mostly with Muslims. Sometimes they come up with questions that are difficult to answer or are really very interesting. The following is one of them originally coming from a Muslim.

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While in Christian world we see everyone have Holy Ghost, thousands of different Churches each one have its own opinion going to thousands of different directions and yet everyone
(Pastors, Priests) claim that they Have Holy Ghost speaking to them and inside them etc....

You dont have one way of praying, some of you even dance like they dance in Discoteques, churches change their ways of prayings, all have different ways, while Holy Ghost that suposed to speak to all of them are suposed to be one.

Main beleives between Churches are different, although Holy Ghost talks and speaks to its leaders, while each main beleive go to different direction then the others.

So my Question is:

How you explain this differences that Holy Ghost are ONE and speaks to everyone but you all are going to different directions!?

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The question is a valid one. If the Holy Spirit is guiding all of us -- individuals and priests and pastors -- why do we have so many different beliefs? Logically, wouldn't we all be getting the same teaching?

Any comments would be appreciated. Thank you.

The question assumes that everyone who is speaking actually speaks what the Holy Spirit wants him to speak. But that's obviously wrong, because people are perfectly free to act against the Spirit's guidance. Thus, the argument is invalid, being based on a false premise.

The logical question that follows this, though, is, "Well how do you know when you are following the Spirit and not your own ideas?" To this, the answer is not different from what the Muslim himself has to deal with. "How do you know when you are following the Koran correctly, and not just your own understanding of it?" After all, Islam is not exactly a monolithic religion in which everyone believes the same things. There are factions there, too. So in both cases, the answer is to "study and show thyself approved," if I may quote someone more knowledgeable on this matter than myself.

Jac3510 wrote:The question assumes that everyone who is speaking actually speaks what the Holy Spirit wants him to speak. But that's obviously wrong, because people are perfectly free to act against the Spirit's guidance. Thus, the argument is invalid, being based on a false premise.

The logical question that follows this, though, is, "Well how do you know when you are following the Spirit and not your own ideas?" To this, the answer is not different from what the Muslim himself has to deal with. "How do you know when you are following the Koran correctly, and not just your own understanding of it?" After all, Islam is not exactly a monolithic religion in which everyone believes the same things. There are factions there, too. So in both cases, the answer is to "study and show thyself approved," if I may quote someone more knowledgeable on this matter than myself.

Thank you.

You are certainly right about the Muslims. They don't all believe the same things. I see them arguing all the time. They interpret Qur'anic verses differently. You can see that by comparing the various translations.

I think God gives us a certain amount of leeway in our interpretations. Sometimes we may get them wrong. What is most important is that we get what is most important right.

I believe what we are asked to believe and do to insure our salvation is very clear.

Issues that are not so clear could be some of the following:

Should infants be baptized or not?
Should we be baptized by emersion or sprinkling?
Do we have to believe in the Trinity as the church defined it?
Do all denominations have to include the same books in their canon?
What is the consequences of those who do not accept the book of Revelation in their canon?

Thanks again.

Christian2 wrote:Thank you. You are certainly right about the Muslims. They don't all believe the same things. I see them arguing all the time. They interpret Qur'anic verses differently. You can see that by comparing the various translations.

I think God gives us a certain amount of leeway in our interpretations. Sometimes we may get them wrong. What is most important is that we get what is most important right.

I believe what we are asked to believe and do to insure our salvation is very clear.

Issues that are not so clear could be some of the following:

Should infants be baptized or not?
Should we be baptized by emersion or sprinkling?
Do we have to believe in the Trinity as the church defined it?
Do all denominations have to include the same books in their canon?
What is the consequences of those who do not accept the book of Revelation in their canon?

Thanks again.

Should infants be baptized or not?

Answer — Grace

Should we be baptized by emersion or sprinkling?

Answer — Grace -- as it depend on how much water is around. It is not the water that makes Baptism unique. It is being placed into Christ. Think of it in terms of covenant relationship with God and each other. Different branches of Christianity teach fundamentally the same thing as I stated but unfortunately this get lost in the interpretation.

Do we have to believe in the Trinity as the church defined it?

Answer — Grace -- You'll end up discovering that the Trinity is real would be a more accurate statement. Old Testament names used for God reveals the Trinity as real as only God can save. No one can see God in his totality and live yet we are also called to look up the Lord and Live. Only the Trinity has answer for this. God reveals himself in diverse ways; Moses only saw God's back, Jacob wrestled with God and lived. Who did Moses see and who did Jacob? How did Jacob die to selfishness - yet live? How are we to die to selfishness and yet live?

Do all denominations have to include the same books in their canon?

Answer — Grace — All have the same books, yet some also include more books that the Septuagint has and what the Jewish bibles contain.

What is the consequences of those who do not accept the book of Revelation in their canon?

Answer — Grace —- they will not know what to look for when the end of days arrives. However most can be found in the OT and sayings of Jesus anyways.
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B. W. wrote:

Christian2 wrote:Thank you. You are certainly right about the Muslims. They don't all believe the same things. I see them arguing all the time. They interpret Qur'anic verses differently. You can see that by comparing the various translations.

I think God gives us a certain amount of leeway in our interpretations. Sometimes we may get them wrong. What is most important is that we get what is most important right.

I believe what we are asked to believe and do to insure our salvation is very clear.

Issues that are not so clear could be some of the following:

Should infants be baptized or not?
Should we be baptized by emersion or sprinkling?
Do we have to believe in the Trinity as the church defined it?
Do all denominations have to include the same books in their canon?
What is the consequences of those who do not accept the book of Revelation in their canon?

Thanks again.

Should infants be baptized or not?

Answer — Grace

Should we be baptized by emersion or sprinkling?

Answer — Grace -- as it depend on how much water is around. It is not the water that makes Baptism unique. It is being placed into Christ. Think of it in terms of covenant relationship with God and each other. Different branches of Christianity teach fundamentally the same thing as I stated but unfortunately this get lost in the interpretation.

Do we have to believe in the Trinity as the church defined it?

Answer — Grace -- You'll end up discovering that the Trinity is real would be a more accurate statement. Old Testament names used for God reveals the Trinity as real as only God can save. No one can see God in his totality and live yet we are also called to look up the Lord and Live. Only the Trinity has answer for this. God reveals himself in diverse ways; Moses only saw God's back, Jacob wrestled with God and lived. Who did Moses see and who did Jacob? How did Jacob die to selfishness - yet live? How are we to die to selfishness and yet live?

Do all denominations have to include the same books in their canon?

Answer — Grace — All have the same books, yet some also include more books that the Septuagint has and what the Jewish bibles contain.

What is the consequences of those who do not accept the book of Revelation in their canon?

Answer — Grace —- they will not know what to look for when the end of days arrives. However most can be found in the OT and sayings of Jesus anyways.
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Great responses. Thank you.

Christian2 wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:The question assumes that everyone who is speaking actually speaks what the Holy Spirit wants him to speak. But that's obviously wrong, because people are perfectly free to act against the Spirit's guidance. Thus, the argument is invalid, being based on a false premise.

The logical question that follows this, though, is, "Well how do you know when you are following the Spirit and not your own ideas?" To this, the answer is not different from what the Muslim himself has to deal with. "How do you know when you are following the Koran correctly, and not just your own understanding of it?" After all, Islam is not exactly a monolithic religion in which everyone believes the same things. There are factions there, too. So in both cases, the answer is to "study and show thyself approved," if I may quote someone more knowledgeable on this matter than myself.

Thank you.

You are certainly right about the Muslims. They don't all believe the same things. I see them arguing all the time. They interpret Qur'anic verses differently. You can see that by comparing the various translations.

I think God gives us a certain amount of leeway in our interpretations. Sometimes we may get them wrong. What is most important is that we get what is most important right.

I believe what we are asked to believe and do to insure our salvation is very clear.

Issues that are not so clear could be some of the following:

Should infants be baptized or not?
Should we be baptized by emersion or sprinkling?
Do we have to believe in the Trinity as the church defined it?
Do all denominations have to include the same books in their canon?
What is the consequences of those who do not accept the book of Revelation in their canon?

Thanks again.

Look up the Nicean Creed - that is the what orthodox Christians believe and what I beleive is vital - the rest is not important for salvation - just makes really good discussions.

B. W. wrote:

Christian2 wrote:Thank you. You are certainly right about the Muslims. They don't all believe the same things. I see them arguing all the time. They interpret Qur'anic verses differently. You can see that by comparing the various translations.

I think God gives us a certain amount of leeway in our interpretations. Sometimes we may get them wrong. What is most important is that we get what is most important right.

I believe what we are asked to believe and do to insure our salvation is very clear.

Issues that are not so clear could be some of the following:

Should infants be baptized or not?
Should we be baptized by emersion or sprinkling?
Do we have to believe in the Trinity as the church defined it?
Do all denominations have to include the same books in their canon?
What is the consequences of those who do not accept the book of Revelation in their canon?

Thanks again.

Should infants be baptized or not?

Answer — Grace

Should we be baptized by emersion or sprinkling?

Answer — Grace -- as it depend on how much water is around. It is not the water that makes Baptism unique. It is being placed into Christ. Think of it in terms of covenant relationship with God and each other. Different branches of Christianity teach fundamentally the same thing as I stated but unfortunately this get lost in the interpretation.

Do we have to believe in the Trinity as the church defined it?

Answer — Grace -- You'll end up discovering that the Trinity is real would be a more accurate statement. Old Testament names used for God reveals the Trinity as real as only God can save. No one can see God in his totality and live yet we are also called to look up the Lord and Live. Only the Trinity has answer for this. God reveals himself in diverse ways; Moses only saw God's back, Jacob wrestled with God and lived. Who did Moses see and who did Jacob? How did Jacob die to selfishness - yet live? How are we to die to selfishness and yet live?

Do all denominations have to include the same books in their canon?

Answer — Grace — All have the same books, yet some also include more books that the Septuagint has and what the Jewish bibles contain.

What is the consequences of those who do not accept the book of Revelation in their canon?

Answer — Grace —- they will not know what to look for when the end of days arrives. However most can be found in the OT and sayings of Jesus anyways.
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Who is this Grace then and how does she know all the answers!!!!!

Silvertusk wrote:...Who is this Grace then and how does she know all the answers!!!!!

I dropped my cigar!

Say good night Grace...


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Good night, Gracy

"The question is a valid one. If the Holy Spirit is guiding all of us -- individuals and priests and pastors -- why do we have so many different beliefs? Logically, wouldn't we all be getting the same teaching?"

No two people on the planet believe in exactly the same God (gods). Even the most basic of words bring slightly different ideas to people's heads.

Sometimes religions diverge considerably, especially if they are big religions with millions of followers.

If you take God as being allmighty, then obviously he can communicate simultaneously with everyone regardless of their location or which way they are pointing.

Marcosll wrote:"The question is a valid one. If the Holy Spirit is guiding all of us -- individuals and priests and pastors -- why do we have so many different beliefs? Logically, wouldn't we all be getting the same teaching?"

No two people on the planet believe in exactly the same God (gods). Even the most basic of words bring slightly different ideas to people's heads.

Sometimes religions diverge considerably, especially if they are big religions with millions of followers.

If you take God as being allmighty, then obviously he can communicate simultaneously with everyone regardless of their location or which way they are pointing.

What does the testimony of Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King David, Elijah, etc and etc teach you? Human beings have foibles and mess things up despite believing in the same God. Through Moses the first five books of the bible came about and people still made mistakes.

God called the ancient Israelites 'stiff necked people' and Jesus revealed in Matthew 13 that' many have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear.' So you answered you own question in this statement of yours:

Even the most basic of words bring slightly different ideas to people's heads.

It is the foibles of people, not God that is the problem. He has been speaking to a lost humanity since the Garden and people still try to pretend they do not hear or maybe not like what they hear and change things a bit.

However, God's flock does hear the master's voice. Christian do agree on many important issues. More so than some like to admit.
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