Evidence for God from Science

Hi folks,

I am not Christian and was wondering in your opinion who goes to hell? Several Christians have told me that unless you accept jesus as your saviour you go to hell, but that cant be correct. That would mean Ghandi, a great peaceful man who happened to be Hindu, would be burning in an eternal evil hell.

That would mean billions of children who aren't fortunate enough to be born in a Christian country would be ultimately destined for hell. Now before you say that there are Christians all over the world spreading the word of god, sit and think if you would be open to some Muslim or some Bhuddist trying to convert you. The likelihood of someone in a non christian country even hearing the word of jesus let alone converting is extremely low, so by all accounts if you are not fortunate enough to be born in a Christian Country you will be destined for hell. If there are Christians out there that feel differently on the path to salvation I would love to hear it.

I think hell is brought about by the individual (upon themselves) through 'evil' behaviours, 'via' the judgement of God. I certainly don't think someone goes to hell because they are non-Christian, that is a horrible idea that goes against the entire teaching of Jesus, who died to save us all. There are 'good' and 'bad' people of all races and culture and anyone who says you're going to hell for not being Christian is not a Christian within themself, that's a fact.

I also think the idea of heaven and hell is a grey area because it is not for a human being to judge what is 'good' or 'bad', so it's hard for us to sit here and say, well, if such-a-body committed a crime, they're going to hell...best for us to leave that to the Father, who'll decide at the appointed time what happens to us.
Without being deliberately judgemental, there are folks who most sane people would see as 'evil' because their actions are so dreadful, and perhaps an evil person lives in hell without realising it - look at the terrible man in Austria who imprisoned his daughter. The life he created is hellish to most of us, but was entirely acceptable to him - could hell be a state of mind in this respect, with the implications only becoming clear after death? (Just an idea)

There may also be an aspect of hell - or perhaps this is limbo - which equates to 'darkness', which in the present context I'd identify with lack of consciousness of God, lack of faith in the afterlife, redemption and so on....

Redd wrote:Hi folks,

I am not Christian and was wondering in your opinion who goes to hell? Several Christians have told me that unless you accept jesus as your saviour you go to hell, but that cant be correct. That would mean Ghandi, a great peaceful man who happened to be Hindu, would be burning in an eternal evil hell.

That would mean billions of children who aren't fortunate enough to be born in a Christian country would be ultimately destined for hell. Now before you say that there are Christians all over the world spreading the word of god, sit and think if you would be open to some Muslim or some Bhuddist trying to convert you. The likelihood of someone in a non christian country even hearing the word of jesus let alone converting is extremely low, so by all accounts if you are not fortunate enough to be born in a Christian Country you will be destined for hell. If there are Christians out there that feel differently on the path to salvation I would love to hear it.

Hi Redd.

I know I've done a lot of wrong in life. Thus, fairness would mean I would be condemned before a entirely righteous God. If in Christ there is forgiveness, then I am thankful for it and going to accept it. (see Jesus: the Antidote)

A discussion on this has cropped up many times on this board. I would recommend having a read of the thread at http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 2&start=11

As for "burning" in hell, well, hell is also said to be a very dark place in Scripture. Go figure.

Hi Redd.

I know I've done a lot of wrong in life. Thus, fairness would mean I would be condemned before a entirely righteous God. If in Christ there is forgiveness, then I am thankful for it and going to accept it. (see Jesus: the Antidote)


I think most of us can identify with this sentiment.....

Hi Redd,

This is a question I've wondered about. How can someone be accountable for something they've never been told? It's like your mom or dad expecting you to do something and not telling you, how can they be mad when you dont do it???
The fact here is, as you've said, many chistians have told you. it's clear that you are unsure about a lot of this... if you have questions, ask. those of us here would be able to either answer your questions, or at least point you in the correct direction.

As for Ghandi, every individual is responsible for their own actions and choices in life. Ghandi for his, you for yours. His salvation is between him and God, as is your salvation between you and God.

As for children, well, King David lost a son because he killed Uriah, the husband of Bathsheba. In the mourning that followed, David indicates that he will see his son some day in heaven,... "But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me." (NASB) 2 Samuel 12:23

That passage indicates that babies will go to heaven. They apparently go to heaven because they are not accountable for their actions since they are not old enough to know right from wrong, and they will never have a chance to believe or not believe in Jesus. Do older children automatically go to heaven? The answer is probably yes, but we can only guess as to how old is too old. When a child is able to know the difference between right and wrong, he probably becomes accountable for his actions before God. We are guessing - scripture is not clear!

This article sums up the issue pretty well I thought...

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... heard.html

I really like R.C. Sproul's Book. It is awsome for most any question about christianity.

What the Bible says about salvation can be seen through the Bible. First we need to know that there are moral crimes, such as lying, stealing, and murdering. Committing these crimes is called sin. According to Romans 3:23, no matter how good you are, you still have done sin in some way. Would you say that people should be punished for doing moral crimes? Well, in Romans 6:23 it says that the wages of sin is death... this means that because we have sinned we deserve death. Not just dying, but eternal judgment in hell. We all have done something wrong to deserve hell. That is the destination of everyone. It is like a person who did something wrong and has to go to court. He goes to the judge and the judge says that he either has to spend the rest of his life in prison or he pays a ten million dollar fine. Well this man doesn't have more than a dollar. He tells the judge that he is very sorry and he will try harder next time. But the judge is a just man and still has to punish him. He says that he committed the crime a long time ago but the judge sill needs to punish the man. The man even says that he doesn't believe the judge is real, but he still is destined for prison. Then someone else comes in, who has no fine, but offers to pay the criminals fine. This is like us. We all have done something wrong and just being sorry or not believing in God won't keep us from hell. We need to be sorry but our fine needs to be paid by someone who has no fine. This is Jesus. He came and died in our place. So to answer the question "who goes to hell?" It would be those who don't see their need for a savior and don't trust in Him to pay their fine.

Truthfully, no one would come to God willingly. God has to show us that we are sinners. This is a very hard thing to understand, but God predestined us to go to heaven or not. God might use missionaries to show people. But those people in other cultures who have not heard of Jesus still deserve hell like everyone. You might say that God isn't fair, but He realistically didn't have to save anyone. It is amazing that He chose anyone at all. I am so glad that I was chosen by God. I desperately hope you will see your need for God and don't risk your eternal salvation.

Redd wrote:I am not Christian and was wondering in your opinion who goes to hell?

As a non-Christian, why would you care who goes to Hell?

FL

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Redd wrote:I am not Christian and was wondering in your opinion who goes to hell?

As a non-Christian, why would you care who goes to Hell?

FL

I would say it is he who has to care the most .

Byblos wrote:

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Redd wrote:I am not Christian and was wondering in your opinion who goes to hell?

As a non-Christian, why would you care who goes to Hell?

FL

I would say it is he who has to care the most .

Of course, you are right, Byblos...but Redd can't possibly know that.

I am interested in knowing Redd's motivation for asking the question in the first place.

FL

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Of course, you are right, Byblos...but Redd can't possibly know that.

I am interested in knowing Redd's motivation for asking the question in the first place.

FL

(it was intended more for him than you FL ).

Byblos wrote:(it was intended more for him than you FL ).

ah...Okaaay. (I'm not the quickest brain around here, ya know.)

FL

C.S. Lewis's suggestion in TGD that people have the choice to leave hell seems to be without biblical support, although it is put forth by philosophers, it seems contradicted by passages such as the Lazarus parable.

What i wonder, is how "easy" it is to get saved or end up in hell. In one respect, we speak as if all you do is believe and that's it! It must be harder to go to hell then heaven - then it wouldnt make sense. But i see 2 different things... one saying God can't be that cruel and send many people to hell; that there's a way to change etc that God's merciful. That you can live bad and then say you're sorry 5 seconds before death and u in heaven. Then you hear how easy it is to go to hell...commit mortal sin, not repent and die (or is that just catholic teaching?). That we MUST do this and this, help those in need, pray, go to church, abstain from sin etc. It's a lot of self-conrrol, suffering etc. So, the 2 views are opposed... you either feel it's "easy" to get saved - admit u sinfiul and it's it; then the other is you do what's needed but that God will judge harshly and we'll be responsible.

God's girl wrote:This is a very hard thing to understand, but God predestined us to go to heaven or not. God might use missionaries to show people. But those people in other cultures who have not heard of Jesus still deserve hell like everyone. You might say that God isn't fair, but He realistically didn't have to save anyone. It is amazing that He chose anyone at all.

In all honesty this argument makes me... sick (puke). As if to say that because i was predestined, i cant have choice. So what's this all about!? If i ever was predestined, i'll make it regardless how little effort i put in. If i wasn't, "destiny" was made so that i can be a "saint" but somehow near my death i'll mess up and die. The argument that "God didnt have to save anyone" is not one i like either. I know we are sinful etc, but one thing i cant comprehend is this: we were MADE imperfect and sinful. If there were infinite number of human beings made, all would be sinful. This shows, to me, that it's something COMMON in all such beings. If you make billion of cars, and all break after some use (as we sin after some time) do you blame the cars? Don't think so. You go beyond... if you made them imperfect, and then you destroy them and say it was fair of you to choose some of them - as all deserved to be destroyed, then it is still better for some "lucky" ones to be saved and some not!? Silly (cars have no free will) but, i cant comprehend that if we were made imperfect and so attracted to sin and so weak that we're held fully accountable for it. That a single sin would be eternal death. Then, how we feel about creating imperfect beings of whom we know they'll stay so and sin? I believe, persoanlly, that if God made humans as they are but gave em no choice of salvation He'd be the most saddistic being ever. Luckily that's not the case; but how must it feel to be not "amongst the chosen ones"? If you are lucky to be chosen you may laugh and thank God; but if you're unlucky then you wonder what "preference" God had. If God LOVES ALL UNCONDITIONALLY and has NO PREFERENCES (or does He?) then how come some are lucky and some not?

OK, then, isn't it "lucky" for a kid to die before accountability age and unfair to those who do get a choice? Then isnt't it better to go straight to heaven than to struggle? 100% chance is always more than whatever. Maybe not great for God's glory; however it may seem it sounds the safest way to go to heaven... why not make newborns and kill em?! What a way of making happy souls for heaven!