to all theist evolutionists

[push]

bit of a nood question here, ive been looking into evolution and find the majority of it to be pretty well backed with evidence. so my question to my fellow theist evolutionists is what are you r beliefs on this, like how does it fit into th ebible? do you believe in macro or just micro evolution? and to those who dont follow it, may i ask why?

cheers

[Robert Byers]

I am a bible believing Christian.
The bible tells the actual origin of the big stuff.
To beat this one needs to beat the accuracy of scripture. Not just put forward theories of this or that and let the line of reasoning work.
Also to make the great corrections to scripture on origins one needs to have great evidence of how otherwise origins of stuff came to be.
To date the evidence for evolution etc is speculations on flawed interpretations of limited data.
It comes down to the authority of scripture and good ole evidence to back up conclusions.
No way around it.

[Seraph]

I myself am a borderline Theistic Evolutionist/Old Earth Creationist, whether macroevolution really occured isn't all too important to me as far as faith in God. Though it clearly obvious to me that both science (and the bible for that matter) show that the earth is billions, not thousands of years old.

Anyway, Theistic Evolutionists kinda differ from what i can tell about how it fits in with the bible. Some, (ie Frances Collins) believe that Genesis is simply a poetic account and is meant to convey the message that God is responsible for creation and isn't meant to be taken literally. Others might say (somewhat how I see it) Evolution isn't really is conflict with Genesis. While God was responsible for creating everything, it doesn't really stress that everything came about in its present state. Something that is interesting is that when God created land animals, God said "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds." (Genesis 1:24 NIV). I myself see how this could be in harmony with macroevolution. If one is a Christian who accepts microevolution (as well as the Big Bang) but finds problems with macroevolution and believes that for the most part creatures were created by God in their present state, they are most likely and Old Earth Creationist.

A lot of the arguements against evolution proposed by OEC's can be found here:

http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/evolprob.html

[chizum]

bit of a nood question here, ive been looking into evolution and find the majority of it to be pretty well backed with evidence. so my question to my fellow theist evolutionists is what are you r beliefs on this, like how does it fit into th ebible? do you believe in macro or just micro evolution? and to those who dont follow it, may i ask why?

cheers

Well I'm also a theistic evolutionist. For me, it can be hard to fit it into the Bible, to be honest. Human hunter-gatherers have supposed to have existed for roughly a million years or so, and yet divine revelation (that we know of) only starts at like, 5,000 or so years ago? I don't think it's possible to answer the question of why that is. It doesn't make all that much sense to me. At some point, God must have blessed humans with an immaterial soul. I believe this is what the Genesis verse, "Man being made in God's likeness" refers to. I don't think God "resembles" humanity, in any other sense than the spiritual. Rather, we are like God because he chose to give us a soul, and the "knowledge of good and evil." Why would God wait billions of years to bring about the pinnacle of his creation (humanity)? I don't really know. However we know that time is irrelevant to God.

Here's an interesting Francis Collins video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjJAWuzno9Y

He doesn't really deal with fitting evolution into the Bible, but focuses more on making a strong case for God while accepting evolution.

What's ultimately important is that you don't let a pro-evolution mindset interfere with your faith. I guess I'm lucky in that way. A lot of influential people in my life fully accepted evolution and also had an unspeakable devout/strong relationship with Christ, it was a good example for me (if I chose to accept evolution, which I basically have).

[Canuckster1127]

bit of a nood question here, ive been looking into evolution and find the majority of it to be pretty well backed with evidence. so my question to my fellow theist evolutionists is what are you r beliefs on this, like how does it fit into th ebible? do you believe in macro or just micro evolution? and to those who dont follow it, may i ask why?

cheers

I'm an Old Earth Creationist, accepting progressive creationism. I am not anti-evolution as science. My concerns are more with materialism and positivism which masquerades as science or "rationalism".

I would not be threatened or disturbed to find that God used evolution to a greater degree in the creative process, but I don't accept that it has been proven or ever can be proven solely on the basis of the physical evidence.

Macro and Micro evolution are popular terms but they are becoming somewhat artificial and meaningless distinctions. Frances Collins is a devout Christian and Theistic Evolutionist. C.S. Lewis was although not as much on an informed scientific level, and Kenneth Miller I know is a strong source in this direction as well. Common denominators in terms of DNA and physiology from a straight common denomionator could indeed point to common links in evolutionary process. They could also point to a common creator. The one element of evolution is a self-fulfilling assumption that cannot assume validly outside of its own methodological constraints. in other words, science doesn't allow for any unexplained outside force that is not physical in nature so its assumptions and conclusions are forced to remain true to the constraints of the system. It can't see God because God's evidence is not direct, it is by inference in that realm.

It's an interesting question, an important one and especially a needful one in dealing with people outside of Christianity who look at us and often times conclude that our YEC brothers and sisters are what Christianity is all about in this realm and that Christian Faith requires intellectual suicide. That's sad and it's innacurate. That's my greatest concern.

[push]

cheers for the replies guys, ill check that video when i have time coz 2 hours is a long time haha, keep the responses coming if you want.

[Himantolophus]

I am a theistic evolutionist as well. I believe in modern scientific theory including macroevolution. Yes, we don't know exactly HOW it happened but we know change happened because of the increasing complexity in the fossil record over long periods of geologic time. I see the Big Bang (or whatever happened to start the Universe) could not happen without a Creator. The significance of the Adam and Eve story is unclear to me. It may be a symbolic story describing the transition of ancient Man from a nomadic to a "civilized" existence. Notice how YEC's assume the Earth is 6000 years old? This coincides very well with the first recorded agrarian civilizations on this planet. The Flood story is also not meant to be truly global as it is about a local flood (or many local floods) that occurred thousands of years ago after the receding of the last glacial Ice sheet.

Other than these opinions, I think of myself as a normal Christian otherwise

[Gman]

Like Canuckster (Bart) I'm an Old Earth Creationist, accepting progressive creationism as well. I do not believe we can use science to either prove nor disprove the existence of God. Also I believe that Darwinian evolution is not 100% completely factual when it comes to science. There are theories, but no smoking guns in either camps (i.e. ID) when it comes to the topic of origins.

My personal belief is that life, or the origins of life, will perhaps forever be a mystery.... However, I would also argue that God "somehow" did create it all.