Evidence for God from Science

Genesis 22: 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for NOW I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.

If god is omniscient, how come he did not know that Abraham fearest him and needed to put him and Isaac through this reprehensible ordeal just to find that out?

If god is omniscient, he should not only know what is in our hearts/minds now, but he should also know the future state of our hearts/minds. So any exercise of tests of faith for which the sole beneficiary of that knowledge is god is redundant.

pointus wrote:Genesis 22: 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for NOW I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.

If god is omniscient, how come he did not know that Abraham fearest him and needed to put him and Isaac through this reprehensible ordeal just to find that out?

If god is omniscient, he should not only know what is in our hearts/minds now, but he should also know the future state of our hearts/minds. So any exercise of tests of faith for which the sole beneficiary of that knowledge is god is redundant.

Or better yet. If God is omniscient why need He have created anything? Couldn't God have just chosen those whom He already knew would have chosen Him?

There is something about "action" I think which have a bearing on "reality". Without "action" then would the reality of that action really exist, or would it be but an ideal... a thought of something that could be?

Kurieuo wrote:

pointus wrote:Genesis 22: 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for NOW I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.

If god is omniscient, how come he did not know that Abraham fearest him and needed to put him and Isaac through this reprehensible ordeal just to find that out?

If god is omniscient, he should not only know what is in our hearts/minds now, but he should also know the future state of our hearts/minds. So any exercise of tests of faith for which the sole beneficiary of that knowledge is god is redundant.

Or better yet. If God is omniscient why need He have created anything? Couldn't God have just chosen those whom He already knew would have chosen Him?

There is something about "action" I think which have a bearing on "reality". Without "action" then would the reality of that action really exist, or would it be but an ideal... a thought of something that could be?

I'm not sure what you mean. Not long ago, I debated in another thread about God's mind being something like a hologram, knowing every possible avenue that we could venture into and free will being the deciding factor. God knows what we will be presented with regardless of previous routes traveled. So it is my contention that free choice is left up to the individual with God giving us the chance to do or not do. Would this apply here?

Cross.eyed wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

pointus wrote:Genesis 22: 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for NOW I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.

If god is omniscient, how come he did not know that Abraham fearest him and needed to put him and Isaac through this reprehensible ordeal just to find that out?

If god is omniscient, he should not only know what is in our hearts/minds now, but he should also know the future state of our hearts/minds. So any exercise of tests of faith for which the sole beneficiary of that knowledge is god is redundant.

Or better yet. If God is omniscient why need He have created anything? Couldn't God have just chosen those whom He already knew would have chosen Him?

There is something about "action" I think which have a bearing on "reality". Without "action" then would the reality of that action really exist, or would it be but an ideal... a thought of something that could be?

I'm not sure what you mean. Not long ago, I debated in another thread about God's mind being something like a hologram, knowing every possible avenue that we could venture into and free will being the deciding factor. God knows what we will be presented with regardless of previous routes traveled. So it is my contention that free choice is left up to the individual with God giving us the chance to do or not do. Would this apply here?

Yes. Real free choice would require true action though (not simply a "hologram" action).

Applying it to the scenario pointus gave, God may have known what Abraham would do (a hologram as you put it), but it wasn't until Abraham went through the ordeal with Isaac that God's knowledge became "NOW" based on a reality: "NOW I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me."

Just as Jesus emptied Himself of things that were His and powers that were His in Phil 2:5 - 11, I believe there is an element of mystery in terms of God's interaction with His people throughout the Scriptures. Some of these types of issues can be explained, I think, in part by the anthropomorphising or projection we put upon God to understand Him in terms of what we are familiar with. Part of it at times, I think can be explained by God's willing self-limitation or curtailing of all that He is or can be in terms of His relationship with us, because we are not capable of understanding or relating to Him in His fullness. God doesn't cease to be all He is, but we are not capable of seeing, comprehending or relating fully with all that God is.

With that, there will arise seeming contradictions and mysteries to us which cannot be logically completely sorted out.

God is infinite, We are finite. God has revealed Himself to us in part through the Bible, in part though the person of Christ and in part through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. He has not however revealed everything of Himself in a manner that we are capable of understanding.

The limitations are with us. God works within our limitations in that relationship.