Evidence for God from Science

Recognizing that not everybody on this board is an American, where do you all stand on celebrating the 4th of July? America's independence was a clear violation of Romans 13 (which John MacArthur has acknowledged), so as a Christian, I'm not sure if I want to celebrate it.

I have written about this elsewhere, but I do not really consider myself a patriotic American and I consider my allegiance to be more to God than to any country. I do not say the pledge of allegiance for religious reasons, and I would be happy to start another thread on that if anybody wants to discuss it.

Daniel wrote:America's independence was a clear violation of Romans 13 (which John MacArthur has acknowledged), so as a Christian, I'm not sure if I want to celebrate it.

I never considered U.S. independence as a violation of Romans 13; but you and Big Mac may be right...

Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. (Ro 13:1)

Then, if you read the Declaration of Independence, at line 10 we read ...governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed... (emphasis mine.) This in itself was a novel idea in 1776. You could argue that democracy is unbiblical, I guess.

Then again, if you liken the British Crown and its colonies to a mariage, the Crown was cruel and even unfaithful to its American colonies. Lines 29 to 94 of the Declaration written by Jefferson and adopted by your Congress state clearly the Crown's ill will towards its American colonies.

You must also consider that the U.S.A. has become the leading nation in evangelism and Israel's closest ally. Both these points hold merit for Christians and - I think - for God.

So go ahead and celebrate your great nation's birthday. Happy 4th of July!

Daniel wrote:Recognizing that not everybody on this board is an American, where do you all stand on celebrating the 4th of July? America's independence was a clear violation of Romans 13 (which John MacArthur has acknowledged), so as a Christian, I'm not sure if I want to celebrate it.

I have written about this elsewhere, but I do not really consider myself a patriotic American and I consider my allegiance to be more to God than to any country. I do not say the pledge of allegiance for religious reasons, and I would be happy to start another thread on that if anybody wants to discuss it.

Follow your own conscience.

America actually stood on many Biblical principles and passages to declare in the minds of many, allegience to God before Monarch.

Romans 13 didn't apply when God took his people from Egypt. While I don't see America as a second Israel, I think declining to celebrate independence of a country that has provided a great deal of freedom to serve God and which has served as a missions center to which many others in the world have been blessed and reached for Christ.

All that said, it is a nation not God and our allegience is first to God. As an American (naturalized about 2 years ago) I'm grateful for the country and the history while recognizing the many flaws and I will celebrate the 4th in that Spirit and am perfectly content to allow others to follow theirs in that regard as long as it doesn't become a platform for legalistic nitpicking and condemnation of others.

It's definitely not an issue I want to be legalistic about - in fact, I'm undecided about a lot of it. I see absolutely nothing wrong with celebrating the 4th and certainly nothing wrong with enjoying the holiday - I still want to catch a fireworks show tomorrow night (I love fireworks) - I just want to consider it in a biblical perspective. The most important thing to keep in mind is what you said, which is that our #1 allegiance is to God, and I think that's something we can all agree on.

I'm very open to the idea that I have taken all of this too far, but as it's a secondary doctrine, I'm not too worried about it.