Testing the Noah Story?

[Himantolophus]

I see YEC's asserting that "this and that" happened or had to happen in order for the flood story (as told literally) to happen. This is often stated despite evidence to the contrary and no supporting evidence besides the Bible.

Which gets to my question: Why isn't AiG or the like, with their deep pocketbooks, trying to test the Noah story?

I know they can't test stuff on the global scale of their Hydropants theory or the formation of huge features, but there is so muich that they CAN study. Why don't they try it?

Examples:
1. Build an Ark to the exact specifications written in the Bible. They can cheat and use a lot of people to get it done faster but it will go a long way to proving a wooden craft that size can be built.
2. Float that ark and put a crew of 8 on it and tow them to the center of the ocean. I guess they should be non-seamen too because Noah and his family weren't sailors? Let them float for a year and pick them up when that time passes. This will prove that the ark can float and survive in typical ocean conditions.
3. Float this ark replica in a cat 5 hurricane with that crew. This will prove that the Ark could survive despite the resurfacing of the Earth underneath it. Maybe not a good idea but if Noah did it so can a replica?
4. Figure out how many kinds were on the Ark and define what a kind is.
5. Gather a pair of each kind and run #2 and #3 again. This can prove that Noah and his family can crew a huge barge AND take care of the animals, and that the animals would survive.
6. Get a large pool and fill it with salt and fresh, heck even another with brackish water. Try and duplicate the process by which fishes and aquatic invertebrates survived the Flood in layers of water. Add a few hundred species to these pools and try and keep them alive.
7. Make a Biosphere watertight and grow a varied fauna of plants and animals. Flood said habitat over a period of hours to days with an intense flow of water saturated with sediment. Show that the resultant sediment strata match real Earth strata. You should be able to study hydrology, differential escape, and sinking rates fairly easily.
8. Take the same pool in #6 and replicate the vegetation mats that supposedly existed in the flood. Place animals on the mats that they assume used them and leave them for a year. Expose them to waves, salinty, and heavy rain, as well as direct sunlight and see what happens. Repeat with fresh and brackish water for replicates.

All of these can potentially be done in the lab or field and would go a long way to validatinbg the Flood. I ask why they haven't considered doing these experiments? Are they afraid of the results? The lawsuits? PETA? haha Money doesn't appear to be an option considering the money that flows into Discovery Institute and all those mega-Churches.

[Gman]

Part of that test is trying to get 3,858,920 animals aboard the ark, a 450 feet long by 75 feet wide by 45 feet high container.

"All of those creatures were known at one time, for Adam gave them all names (Genesis 2:19-20), and, since they exist today, they must have been on the ark. But we shall be extremely generous to the YEC creationists and add only 500,000 undiscovered species to our figure of 1,177,920—thus giving a mere 1,677,920 species with which Noah had to contend.

Of course, we can't forget that Genesis 7:2-3 (particularly in the Revised Standard Version) makes it clear that only unclean animals come in single pairs, male and female; the clean animals and birds come in seven pairs, male and female. That means fourteen of each clean animal and each bird. But since figures for the number of clean animals are hard to find, we will have to let creationists off the hook and ignore them. Birds are another story. There are 8,590 species of birds. Since they have already been calculated into our figure of 1,877,920 species or 3,755,840 individual animals on the ark, we need only six more pairs of each species of bird to make it come out to seven pairs. That brings our count up to a grand total of 3,858,920 animals aboard the ark—two of each species, except birds which number fourteen each."

Source: here

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

1. Build an Ark to the exact specifications written in the Bible... 2. Float that ark and put a crew of 8 on it and tow them to the center of the ocean...

The Norweigan adventurer Thor Heyderdahl has already done something similar...and several times at that. While Heyderdahl did not build the Ark, he did build several simple ships -according to ancient techniques - and sailed them across vast stretches of ocean.

If a modern-day Thor Herderdahl would build an Ark and do everything you suggested and succeed, do you really think that an unbelieving world would be convinced by such a stunt?

FL

[Himantolophus]

GMan: of course I know the unfeasibility of doing such a thing but YEC's seem to argue that there were only a few thousand "kinds" on the Ark. They could start with a smaller estimate. They probably doubt the Ark would float and are worried that the animals would all perish... so they would not dare try it.

If a modern-day Thor Herderdahl would build an Ark and do everything you suggested and succeed, do you really think that an unbelieving world would be convinced by such a stunt?

If his replica sailed across the ocean successfully for a year without seeing land, with 8 people as crew, and tens of thousands of animals on board, in cataclysmic conditions, and no outside help, I'd sure as heck be convinced! That would only be a start however. They'd have to do the rest of the experiments (6-8) as well.

[Robert Byers]

Why more tests?
All the geologic evidence. All the historic and oral historic evidence of so many peoples. The bible says so. So much of mankind has accepted the truth of the bible in the superior peoples of Christian europe.
Some people just will not believe what they don't see with their eyes.

[Gman]

Why more tests?

Why not? Why even search search for archaeological evidence for the Bible?

All the geologic evidence. All the historic and oral historic evidence of so many peoples. The bible says so.

English Bible or the original Hebrew Bible?

So much of mankind has accepted the truth of the bible in the superior peoples of Christian europe.

Superior peoples of Christian europe?

Some people just will not believe what they don't see with their eyes.

Don't even need to use our eyes. It defies simple logic....

[colemine77]

Hi Guys

I am new here but I am going to jump right in.

I have a question that has not been answered for me by YEC. YEC claims the flood was global and that all animal life was destroyed, except off course those on the Ark. The Ark came to rest somewhere in Asia. The earth was then repopulated from there with the animals and people that came off the Ark. My question is this. How did the animals get from Asia to Australia for example? Not even mentioning all the islands and other continents. Did they swim there? And why are the animals so different? How come there are Kangaroos only in Australia and no Lions when the climate would suit them perfectly?

[Silvertusk]

Hi Guys

I am new here but I am going to jump right in.

I have a question that has not been answered for me by YEC. YEC claims the flood was global and that all animal life was destroyed, except off course those on the Ark. The Ark came to rest somewhere in Asia. The earth was then repopulated from there with the animals and people that came off the Ark. My question is this. How did the animals get from Asia to Australia for example? Not even mentioning all the islands and other continents. Did they swim there? And why are the animals so different? How come there are Kangaroos only in Australia and no Lions when the climate would suit them perfectly?

Well exactly - I would be interested to know that as well. Welcome to the board.

[David Blacklock]

And another thing. After Adam and Eve finished (if ever) arguing about what to name all those animals, the flood would have come and gone and everybody would have drowned.

DB

[Gman]

Hi Guys

I am new here but I am going to jump right in.

I have a question that has not been answered for me by YEC. YEC claims the flood was global and that all animal life was destroyed, except off course those on the Ark. The Ark came to rest somewhere in Asia. The earth was then repopulated from there with the animals and people that came off the Ark. My question is this. How did the animals get from Asia to Australia for example? Not even mentioning all the islands and other continents. Did they swim there? And why are the animals so different? How come there are Kangaroos only in Australia and no Lions when the climate would suit them perfectly?

YEC claims that there were land bridges that were once exposed between the continents during the last ice age. Basically their idea is after the flood much of the water contributed to the ice packs in both the north and south poles which exposed these land bridges for migration. Others also claim that man could have shipped them over in boats...

OCE is claiming that only the people were destroyed in a local flood in one area thus leaving the animals to thrive in other areas of the world.

[Himantolophus]

Why more tests?

Why not? It would PROVE that the story is true, right?

All the geologic evidence.

Please list all of this evidence cuz it doesn't exist except in your mind

All the historic and oral historic evidence of so many peoples. The bible says so. So much of mankind has accepted the truth of the bible in the superior peoples of Christian europe.

I thought "Christian Europe" for the most part accepts evolutionary/Old Earth these days

Some people just will not believe what they don't see with their eyes.

If I see them do these tests with my own eyes, then I'll be more apt to believe!

I have a question that has not been answered for me by YEC. YEC claims the flood was global and that all animal life was destroyed, except off course those on the Ark. The Ark came to rest somewhere in Asia. The earth was then repopulated from there with the animals and people that came off the Ark. My question is this. How did the animals get from Asia to Australia for example? Not even mentioning all the islands and other continents. Did they swim there? And why are the animals so different? How come there are Kangaroos only in Australia and no Lions when the climate would suit them perfectly?

this is one of the hundreds of problems with the YEC Flood story. The OEC/TE/Evolutionist local floods are well supported by evidence and these floods have occurred all over the world (which led to the many flood myths in all cultures).

And another thing. After Adam and Eve finished (if ever) arguing about what to name the animals, the flood would have come and gone and everybody would have drowned.

true... haha At least they didn't have to invent the scientific names!

YEC claims that there were land bridges that were once exposed between the continents during the last ice age. Basically their idea is after the flood much of the water contributed to the ice packs in both the north and south poles which exposed these land bridges for migration. Others also claim that man could have shipped them over in boats...

although they fail to realize that there were multiple Ice Ages, not just one, and the cycles span a period of hundreds of thousands of years.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

If his replica [of the Ark] sailed across the ocean successfully for a year without seeing land, with 8 people as crew, and tens of thousands of animals on board, in cataclysmic conditions, and no outside help, I'd sure as heck be convinced! That would only be a start however. They'd have to do the rest of the experiments (6-8) as well.

They would have to do the rest of the experiments (6-8) as well?! Then what? Do you think such a stunt would make unbelievers consider the Bible's veracity/God's existence/Jesus' Messiahship any more?

Highly unlikely. Jesus is speaking:

...if they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead. Luke 16:31 NIV

Jesus went on to actually rise from the dead, yet very few people today really believe that. To the vast majority, Jesus is nothing but a prophet, or a great man or a swear word.

However, the stunt you propose could make an interesting crockumentary on the History Channel... I'd be watching, zapper in hand.

FL

[Himantolophus]

This has nothing to do with Jesus or God or getting people to believe in Him, it has to do with the Flood of Noah and whether it was a global event and whether Noah could have accomplished the task. Belief in a localized Flood does not mean that we do not believe in the Bible, Jesus, or God.

YEC's have to prove to evolutionists/OEC/TE and the like that their kiteral global Noah's fllod actually occurred. Significant parts of the story are testable and falsifiable. Scientists are all about testing their theories, YEC's should do the same, right?

[Himantolophus]

However, the stunt you propose could make an interesting crockumentary on the History Channel... I'd be watching, zapper in hand.

it probably would not be allowed to be filmed as there would be a high number of casualties...

[Robert Byers]

Hi Guys

I am new here but I am going to jump right in.

I have a question that has not been answered for me by YEC. YEC claims the flood was global and that all animal life was destroyed, except off course those on the Ark. The Ark came to rest somewhere in Asia. The earth was then repopulated from there with the animals and people that came off the Ark. My question is this. How did the animals get from Asia to Australia for example? Not even mentioning all the islands and other continents. Did they swim there? And why are the animals so different? How come there are Kangaroos only in Australia and no Lions when the climate would suit them perfectly?

Simple for this creationist. I wrote an essay some time back on this subject. called "Post flood marsupial migration Explained" by Robert Byers. Just google.

The animals in Australia etc are just the same animals as elsewhere that repopulated the earth after the flood. Yes the sea levels must of been for a while lower to allow more ease of migration. No problem.
Kangaroos are just big wallabys and these creatures probably have cousins in the fossil record of other areas on earth at that time. Thier was a marsupial lion in australia and south America.
This question has not been well answered by creationists too date except with ideas of areas selecting marsupials to survive here and the others to survive elsewhere. Yet everybody went everywhere. This is a error.