Evidence for God from Science

Ok so as the title of this thread says I'm new to morality.

My only question so far is "If morality exists then why must it be from a divine origin rather than being manmade?"

Hi JC333

Just so you don't think we're ignoring you, I'm doing some study and since you wrote that you were new to morality, I didn't want to be too short or unclear.

Hopefully, I'll have some information tomorrow that you can use.

Blessings
Cross.eyed

Take your time.

Thanks for responding.

Morality is man made. Who says I should abstain fron taking a plant(Cannabis)? Man or God? The answer is Man. How wrong is that. It flies in the face of what God gave man. Plants to eat and enjoy. It's only your government who trully tells you what is moral and what is not.

NIK wrote:Morality is man made. Who says I should abstain fron taking a plant(Cannabis)? Man or God? The answer is Man. How wrong is that. It flies in the face of what God gave man. Plants to eat and enjoy. It's only your government who trully tells you what is moral and what is not.

I disagree, that is a decision of law by government (the canabis example you have above), and that is man made.
(We are instructed to obey the laws of the government from God in the Bible (as long as they do not conflict with the law of God))

As for morality it is a gift from God, I will have more on this later.

NIK wrote:Morality is man made. Who says I should abstain fron taking a plant(Cannabis)? Man or God? The answer is Man. How wrong is that. It flies in the face of what God gave man. Plants to eat and enjoy. It's only your government who trully tells you what is moral and what is not.

Welcome to the board NIK

I disagree, the (U.S.) government laws are modeled after Christian/Judeo principles.
Murder, theft, rape, lieing (under oath), protection for citizens are all derived from the Holy Bible.

I do understand that laws must be up-dated for a changing society (such as if you were to smoke your cannabis and then operate a vehicle) to further protect and serve it's citizens.

The original laws were carefully examined from the Bible and fitted to apply.

Um....er JC333, you said to take my time and I had no intention of taking advantage of that , but today has been very busy and I will compile what I have and try to post on Wed.

Cross.eyed wrote:Um....er JC333, you said to take my time and I had no intention of taking advantage of that , but today has been very busy and I will compile what I have and try to post on Wed.

No problem man. Thanks for taking your time.

JCSx2 wrote:

NIK wrote:Morality is man made. Who says I should abstain fron taking a plant(Cannabis)? Man or God? The answer is Man. How wrong is that. It flies in the face of what God gave man. Plants to eat and enjoy. It's only your government who trully tells you what is moral and what is not.

I disagree, that is a decision of law by government (the canabis example you have above), and that is man made.
(We are instructed to obey the laws of the government from God in the Bible (as long as they do not conflict with the law of God))

As for morality it is a gift from God, I will have more on this later.

God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of all the earth.…To you it will be for meat." … And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. (Genesis 1:29-31) The Bible predicts some herb's prohibition. "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times, some shall … speak lies in hypocrisy … commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (Paul: 1 Timothy 4:1-3)

The Bible speaks of a special plant. "I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more." (Ezekiel 34:29) A healing plant. On either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare 12 manner of fruits, and yielding her fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. (Revelations 22:1-2) A gift from God.

What does this mean then?

Jesus said to keep church and state apart. "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's and unto God the things which be God's." (Luke 20:25) As we have seen, it was God, not government, who gave man the herbs to use. And it was government that put Jesus to death.

I'm confused...

NIK wrote:I'm confused...

Me too.


I believe it's in Ephesians (either Eph. 5 or Eph. 6) where Paul writes to submit to your Government's rules and such.

JC333 wrote:

NIK wrote:I'm confused...

Me too.


I believe it's in Ephesians (either Eph. 5 or Eph. 6) where Paul writes to submit to your Government's rules and such.

This might be the bible verses you are thinking of...

1 Peter 2:12-16, "...Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation. 13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. 16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God." ESV
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B. W. wrote:

JC333 wrote:

NIK wrote:I'm confused...

Me too.


I believe it's in Ephesians (either Eph. 5 or Eph. 6) where Paul writes to submit to your Government's rules and such.

This might be the bible verses you are thinking of...

1 Peter 2:12-16, "...Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation. 13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. 16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God." ESV
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Beat me to it, I had to go home yesterday to look this up. Thanks.

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JCSx2 wrote:...Beat me to it, I had to go home yesterday to look this up. Thanks.

Just think on how the founding fathers of the United States wrestled with these verses to turn away from the King and England. Makes for a good read if one likes history as it does wrestle with morality.
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JC333 wrote:Ok so as the title of this thread says I'm new to morality.

My only question so far is "If morality exists then why must it be from a divine origin rather than being manmade?"

Something to consider is that God is a Holy God. This holiness of God's has divine morality…

Human beings can also create their own morality and place these into laws to govern by. Are you trying to figure out if morality comes form one source or by consensus?
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JC333 wrote:Ok so as the title of this thread says I'm new to morality.

I think we will always "new" to morality even as we progress in our walk with Christ.
I sometimes remember sins past that surprise me in how I could have been so heartless and unforgiving, but more on that later.

Mk.10:18-19 "Why do you call me good" Jesus asked him. No one is good but One-God. You know the commandments;
Do not commit murder;
do not commit adultery;
do not steal; do not bear false witness
do not defraud;
honor your father and mother

After becoming a Christian, in my first read through of the Bible, this verse rolled me backward. If Jesus was not good then I am intolerable in every sense of the word.

Ecc. 7: 20 There is certainly no righteous man on the earth
I tried to feel better about myself after reading Solomon's words but "no righteous" included me too.

My only question so far is "if morality exists then why must it be from a divine originrather than being manmade?"

In his book The Real Face of Atheism Ravi Zacharias quotes G. K. Chesrerton:

" For under the smooth legal surface of our society, there are already moving, very lawless things. We are always near the breaking point, when we care for only what is legal, and nothing for what is lawlful. Unless we have a moral principle about such delicate matters as marriage and murder, the whole world will become a welter of exceptions with no rules. There will be so many hard cases that everything will go soft."

Ravi replies,

"These words were written more than a generation ago, and now in that short span of time, the comment by political science professor Robert Fitch has become painfully real:

"Ours is an age where ethics has become obsolete. It is superceded by science, deleted by philosophy and dismissed as emotive by psychology. It is drowned in compassion, evaporates into aesthetics an retreats before relativism. The usual moral distinctions between good and bad are simply drowned in a maudlin emotion in which we feelmore sympathy for the murderer than for the murdered, for the adulterer than for the betrayed, and in which we have actually begun to believe that the real guilty party, the one who somehow caused it all, is the victim, and not the perpetrator of the crime."

It is no wonder I cozyed up to myself until I read the words of our Savior and Solomon, it was normal thinking? After a few years of examining what a Christian should be in a moral way, I looked back at how my friends were and it was true that for us at least, in our families, it was pretty much the same and considered normal. Our parents drank so we drank, we were all at about the same economic level, and every one was brainless.

I have gotten caught up with time and duty again, so, I"ll have to stop here for now, but
I'll be back tomorrow as I have found quite a bit more to give you and some more personal observations as well.

Blessings, Cross.eyed