Evidence for God from Science

Little White Lies vs Big ol' Dark Lies - is there a difference?

Here is a topic: God hates Lies yet in Exodus 1:15-19 the midwives lied and were blessed by God later on. In Joshua 2:2-7 Rahab lied too and yet was saved!

So the question is — what kind of lie does God hate? Is there any difference in lies?

Bible tells us not to lie, yet, as parents, your kindergartener child comes up to you beaming with joy over his art work and says, “Daddy mommy look at what I drawed a cat!” You look at it and all you see is the ugliest blend of colors scribbled in swirls — what do you say?

The truth: “Kid that is the ugliest drawing I have ever seen — that's no cat...”

Or lie — “Wow that's the best darn cat I have ever seen!” and proudly hang it on the refrigerator!

Men, your wife comes up to you and says, “Honey, does this make me look fat?”

Should you lie or tell the truth???

Another example: A soldier is captured on the battlefield and the enemy questions him. He knows all the details of the plan of battle. When questioned and asked what is the plan of battle, should he not lie and tell the battle plan to the enemy or lie and say he's just a poor soldier who follows orders and knows no plans?

Compare these to the lies that slander and defame and cause harm and ruin to a person. A person wrongfully accused of stealing so the accuser can be rid of their rival: Or the kind of lie that is told in gossip to tear another down in the eyes of others.

So are all lies really lies? How could God have honored the midwives and Rahab as well as other bible saints that told lies if he hates liars?

Is there a difference in the kind and type of lie and the reason it is told?

Ideas???
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Let's look at the bible verse I mentioned:

Exodus 1:15-20, "And the king of Egypt spoke to the Hebrew midwives, of whom the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah; 16 and he said: 'When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, ye shall look upon the birthstool: if it be a son, then ye shall kill him; but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.' 17 But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men-children alive. 18 And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them: 'Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men- children alive?' 19 And the midwives said unto Pharaoh: 'Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwife come unto them.' 20 And God dealt well with the midwives; and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty." JPS

The midwives lied - but were honored for this. Is there a difference in the type of lie that God hates?

Joshua 2:2-7, "And it was told the king of Jericho, saying: 'Behold, there came men in hither to-night of the children of Israel to search out the land.' 3 And the king of Jericho sent unto Rahab, saying: 'Bring forth the men that are come to thee, that are entered into thy house; for they are come to search out all the land.' 4 And the woman took the two men, and hid them; and she said: 'Yea, the men came unto me, but I knew not whence they were; 5 and it came to pass about the time of the shutting of the gate, when it was dark, that the men went out; whither the men went I know not; pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them.' 6 But she had brought them up to the roof, and hid them with the stalks of flax, which she had spread out upon the roof. 7 And the men pursued after them the way to the Jordan unto the fords; and as soon as they that pursued after them were gone out, the gate was shut." JPS

Hebrew 11:3, "By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient..."

Joshua 2:18, "Behold, when we come into the land, you shall tie this scarlet cord in the window through which you let us down, and you shall gather into your house your father and mother, your brothers, and all your father's household." ESV

Rahab lied several times in order to save the spies. Is there a difference in the type of lie that God hates?

Look at how God views lying:

Proverbs 6:16-19, 'There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, 19 a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers." ESV

Deuteronomy 5:20, "And you shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."LITV

Proverbs 19:5, "A false witness shall not be acquitted; yea, a breather of lies shall not escape. " LITV

Revelations 21:8, " But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.." KJV

After reading these verses - is there a difference in the type of lie that God hates due to what happened with the midwives and Rahab?

Any opinions or thoughts?

The reason I ask is that this was brought up at BSF (Bible Study Fellowsip) during group discussion and I was stumped!
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B. W. wrote:So the question is — what kind of lie does God hate? Is there any difference in lies?

God hates all lies, as your quote from the Bible points out:

B. W. wrote:Proverbs 6:16-19, 'There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, 19 a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers." ESV

The Bible is also a historical record of the Chosen People, so God records accurately what happened in pivotal situations, such as the account the Egyptian midwives and the account of Rahab and the spies. The lies were wrong, and maybe they represent man's weakness in the face of great and trying times; but God's sovereignty would not be perverted by man's sin and His will won out...of course!

B. W. wrote:Bible tells us not to lie, yet, as parents, your kindergartener child comes up to you beaming with joy over his art work and says, “Daddy mommy look at what I drawed a cat!” You look at it and all you see is the ugliest blend of colors scribbled in swirls — what do you say? The truth: “Kid that is the ugliest drawing I have ever seen — that's no cat...” Or lie — “Wow that's the best darn cat I have ever seen!” and proudly hang it on the refrigerator!

To paraphrase a well-known saying, Context, context, context! A child who is just developing motor skills and learning drawing skills doesn't need an art critic!

B. W. wrote:Men, your wife comes up to you and says, “Honey, does this make me look fat?”Should you lie or tell the truth???

I tell my wife the truth if she asks. She no longer asks very much.

FL

FL makes a great point about a child. Saying "that's wonderful, sweetie" is true, considering her age and developmental capabilites.

And I don't think you necessarily must respond to the question about weight in the same light. For instance, you could leanr the art of pre-emptive strikes "Wow honey, you look great" can do wonderful things to forestall that question. (and I am assuming *that* would be the truth after all, we all agree that we needn't be model skinny to be great-looking....RIGHT??? ).

But as to Rahab...still think she would require frogiveness for lying. I think there are times that deception would be somehting that is required, but it doesn't make it righteous.

Dunno....still struggle with this.

I tell my wife the truth if she asks. She no longer asks very much.

Wow, well, that would stop it....hope you offer some pre-emptive strikes as well!! We all need those.

zoegirl wrote:And I don't think you necessarily must respond to the question about weight in the same light. For instance, you could leanr the art of pre-emptive strikes "Wow honey, you look great" can do wonderful things to forestall that question. (and I am assuming *that* would be the truth after all, we all agree that we needn't be model skinny to be great-looking....RIGHT??? ). But as to Rahab...still think she would require frogiveness for lying. I think there are times that deception would be somehting that is required, but it doesn't make it righteous. Dunno....still struggle with this:

I tell my wife the truth if she asks. She no longer asks very much. (Fürstentum Liechtenstein quote)

Wow, well, that would stop it....hope you offer some pre-emptive strikes as well!! We all need those.

My wife doesn't have a weight «problem» as such (all such problems are mostly in a woman's head anyway) but she does have a funny color sense...sometimes she chooses funny colors for her clothes. I used to tell her that she looked like an African flag (they all have mis-matched colors) when she asked my opinion about, say, a new dress. I have since learned that it is better to be tactful and say, «if you feel comfortable in it, you'll look good!»

Is this a lie? I think not.

FL

Um....well.. confession time. My wife once asked; "Honey, do these pants make my butt look bigger?"
I told her: "No, your butt is bigger and the pants have nothing to do with it."

Now bear in mind she often asked such questions just to catch me. With a 1-2 punch, I said-"I didn't marry your butt, I married you!

She has yet to asked such questions again, and to prove it, I'm still in one piece.

The truth worked out better than anything else that would have dribbled out of my face (especially the bloody part.)

Sometimes I wonder how it would have gone had I been preemptive??

Well, that is one way to stop it.

A friend of mine has a relative who, when someone asks if a dress makes her look fat, says "It's not your dress that makes you look fat, it's your fat that makes you look fat."

Make of that what you will.

Cross.eyed wrote: My wife once asked; "Honey, do these pants make my butt look bigger?" I told her: "No, your butt is bigger and the pants have nothing to do with it."

Well, that's a pretty stupid thing to tell your wife!

Cross.eyed wrote: With a 1-2 punch, I said-"I didn't marry your butt, I married you!

Nice save!

Swamper wrote:A friend of mine has a relative who, when someone asks if a dress makes her look fat, says "It's not your dress that makes you look fat, it's your fat that makes you look fat."

Now, that's a dumb answer! (What does this «relative-of-a-friend» do for a living?)

FL

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Swamper wrote:A friend of mine has a relative who, when someone asks if a dress makes her look fat, says "It's not your dress that makes you look fat, it's your fat that makes you look fat."

Now, that's a dumb answer! (What does this «relative-of-a-friend» do for a living?)

FL

He's retired.

I agree FL, it was stupid, but I thought under the cicumstances I should be truthful since she ask that question to see if I would bend the truth.

Cross.eyed you are sure a brave soul!
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B. W. wrote:Cross.eyed you are sure a brave soul!
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I appreciate the sentiment B.W. but FL nailed it-I've been married 30 yrs-it was STUPID!

I've always thought it better to be honest than to lie, where does it get you? There are cases where tact and consideration come into play, however. In the case of the child's drawing, for instance, you could say "Wow you did an excellent job! Good work!" This wouldn't be a lie, since he did the best he could. There are usually ways to tell the truth without hurting someone's feelings. On the pants and dress subject, that may be an exception. Don't know how to handle that one. Cross-eyed seemed to do pretty good!

Thanks everyone!

Looking into this matter, it seems that the lying that God hates are of a slanderous nature that bring ruin and destruction into peoples lives - a false witness that breathes out lies...

Proverbs 6:16-19, "There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, 19 a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers." ESV

Proverbs 16 seems to indicate that the lies told that bring harm is what He hates more than anything else. A Lying tongue is in context with haughty eyes and shedding of blood, devising wicked plans, running to do evil seem to indicate that lies that support these things are what God hates.

Rahab and the Midwives did not meet this criterion. They told an untruth in order to protect life. I see a difference but again — I do not have the answer to my own question settled yet. Interesting topic thoe...

Does anyone see a difference?
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