Evidence for God from Science

Hey guys, an agnostic friend of mine recently decided to become a Christian (specifically Catholic) and I'd like you to keep him in your prayers. He's also in the National Guard and will be shipping out to Iraq for his second combat tour this March, so please pray that he stays safe while he's over there.

Thanks,
James

Praise The LOrD!!

Will do...keep us informed

Prayers offered up Swamper.

Ditto with Praising The Lord !

He's never alone anymore!

Lifting up prayers for your friend:)

Has he invited Jesus into his heart or is he depending on Catholic ritual to save him? Was he attracted to Catholic's position on theistic evolution? Why Catholicism, did he say?

ageofknowledge wrote:Has he invited Jesus into his heart or is he depending on Catholic ritual to save him? Was he attracted to Catholic's position on theistic evolution? Why Catholicism, did he say?

I think the point was that he turned from agnosticism into theism, but I heard one of the rituals includes inviting Jesus into one's heart so I bet he's safe in that regard. And "Catholic's position on theistic evolution"? There is no such thing. Catholics are free to believe whatever they want as far as the age of the universe/earth is concerned. As long as it does not contradict basic, orthodox Christian belief, that is (special creation, literal Adam and Eve, original sin, etc.)

Byblos wrote:

ageofknowledge wrote:Has he invited Jesus into his heart or is he depending on Catholic ritual to save him? Was he attracted to Catholic's position on theistic evolution? Why Catholicism, did he say?

I think the point was that he turned from agnosticism into theism, but I heard one of the rituals includes inviting Jesus into one's heart so I bet he's safe in that regard. And "Catholic's position on theistic evolution"? There is no such thing. Catholics are free to believe whatever they want as far as the age of the universe/earth is concerned. As long as it does not contradict basic, orthodox Christian belief, that is (special creation, literal Adam and Eve, original sin, etc.)

How do you know he is safe in that regard? How do you know he placed his faith in Jesus as Lord for his salvation and became a disciple of Jesus? Do you believe that membership in the Catholic Church guarantees salvation?

And while compatibilism and incompatibilism sum up the Easter Orthodox position, the Roman Catholic Church position has changed toward a theistic evolution position. However, while "Papal pronouncements, along with commentaries by cardinals, indicate that the Church is aware of the general findings of scientists on the gradual appearance of life. The Church's stance is that the temporal appearance of life has been guided by God, but the Church has thus far declined to define in what way that may be. Catholic schools do not teach theistic evolution as part of their science curriculum. They teach the facts of evolution and the scientific theory of its mechanisms. This is essentially the same biological curriculum taught in public schools and secular universities."

So while the Catholic Church leans into theistic evolution it teaches it's children secular neo-darwinism.

ageofknowledge wrote:

Byblos wrote:

ageofknowledge wrote:Has he invited Jesus into his heart or is he depending on Catholic ritual to save him? Was he attracted to Catholic's position on theistic evolution? Why Catholicism, did he say?

I think the point was that he turned from agnosticism into theism, but I heard one of the rituals includes inviting Jesus into one's heart so I bet he's safe in that regard. And "Catholic's position on theistic evolution"? There is no such thing. Catholics are free to believe whatever they want as far as the age of the universe/earth is concerned. As long as it does not contradict basic, orthodox Christian belief, that is (special creation, literal Adam and Eve, original sin, etc.)

How do you know he is safe in that regard? How do you know he placed his faith in Jesus as Lord for his salvation and became a disciple of Jesus?

I don't know that and neither do you but you did make it the central point as opposed to Catholic rituals. I merely pointed out that one of those rituals is precisely what you perceive as a necessary step so exactly what is your objection here? If it is with Catholicism per se, why don't you go ahead and state that? I'll be more than happy to entertain such a discussion in a different thread.

ageofknowledge wrote:Do you believe that membership in the Catholic Church guarantees salvation?

No.

ageofknowledge wrote:And while compatibilism and incompatibilism sum up the Easter Orthodox position, the Roman Catholic Church position has changed toward a theistic evolution position.

As far as I know, the church has NO official position with respect to evolution, theistic or otherwise. If you have information to the contrary please provide it.

ageofknowledge wrote:However, while "Papal pronouncements, along with commentaries by cardinals, indicate that the Church is aware of the general findings of scientists on the gradual appearance of life. The Church's stance is that the temporal appearance of life has been guided by God, but the Church has thus far declined to define in what way that may be. Catholic schools do not teach theistic evolution as part of their science curriculum. They teach the facts of evolution and the scientific theory of its mechanisms. This is essentially the same biological curriculum taught in public schools and secular universities."

Is this a quote from somewhere? What is the source? Besides, papal announcements and cardinal commentaries do not constitute official church positions. Unless pronounced ex cathedra, they are nothing more than private opinions. While John Paul II was a theistic evolutionist, Benedict XVI leans more towards intelligent design. But again, those are private opinions, not an official church position.

ageofknowledge wrote:So while the Catholic Church leans into theistic evolution it teaches it's children secular neo-darwinism.

Once again, the Church does not lean either way. Private catholic beliefs wrt evolution are as varied as any other group and to say that the Church "teaches its children secular neo-darwinism" is a misguided statement at best and at worst it is a blatantly ignorant lie.

Byblos wrote:

ageofknowledge wrote:

Byblos wrote:

ageofknowledge wrote:Has he invited Jesus into his heart or is he depending on Catholic ritual to save him? Was he attracted to Catholic's position on theistic evolution? Why Catholicism, did he say?

I think the point was that he turned from agnosticism into theism, but I heard one of the rituals includes inviting Jesus into one's heart so I bet he's safe in that regard. And "Catholic's position on theistic evolution"? There is no such thing. Catholics are free to believe whatever they want as far as the age of the universe/earth is concerned. As long as it does not contradict basic, orthodox Christian belief, that is (special creation, literal Adam and Eve, original sin, etc.)

How do you know he is safe in that regard? How do you know he placed his faith in Jesus as Lord for his salvation and became a disciple of Jesus?

I don't know that and neither do you but you did make it the central point as opposed to Catholic rituals. I merely pointed out that one of those rituals is precisely what you perceive as a necessary step so exactly what is your objection here? If it is with Catholicism per se, why don't you go ahead and state that? I'll be more than happy to entertain such a discussion in a different thread.

ageofknowledge wrote:Do you believe that membership in the Catholic Church guarantees salvation?

No.

ageofknowledge wrote:And while compatibilism and incompatibilism sum up the Easter Orthodox position, the Roman Catholic Church position has changed toward a theistic evolution position.

As far as I know, the church has NO official position with respect to evolution, theistic or otherwise. If you have information to the contrary please provide it.

ageofknowledge wrote:However, while "Papal pronouncements, along with commentaries by cardinals, indicate that the Church is aware of the general findings of scientists on the gradual appearance of life. The Church's stance is that the temporal appearance of life has been guided by God, but the Church has thus far declined to define in what way that may be. Catholic schools do not teach theistic evolution as part of their science curriculum. They teach the facts of evolution and the scientific theory of its mechanisms. This is essentially the same biological curriculum taught in public schools and secular universities."

Is this a quote from somewhere? What is the source? Besides, papal announcements and cardinal commentaries do not constitute official church positions. Unless pronounced ex cathedra, they are nothing more than private opinions. While John Paul II was a theistic evolutionist, Benedict XVI leans more towards intelligent design. But again, those are private opinions, not an official church position.

ageofknowledge wrote:So while the Catholic Church leans into theistic evolution it teaches it's children secular neo-darwinism.

Once again, the Church does not lean either way. Private catholic beliefs wrt evolution are as varied as any other group and to say that the Church "teaches its children secular neo-darwinism" is a misguided statement at best and at worst it is a blatantly ignorant lie.

You're just being argumentative. I must have struck a chord with you. I could begin to dissect every point and every assertion of yours but I'm just not in the mood right now and I don't care enough at the moment. Another time perhaps.

ageofknowledge wrote:You're just being argumentative. I must have struck a chord with you. I could begin to dissect every point and every assertion of yours but I'm just not in the mood right now and I don't care enough at the moment. Another time perhaps.

Or perhaps you have nothing to base your statements on? Another time indeed.

:S I'm confused as to your inferences that just because he joined the Catholic Church, he may believe he is "guaranteed" salvation. This isn't true. While the Church claims to be the authority on teaching the way to salvation, it doesn't guarantee it. In fact, they teach that we're always having to use those tools to avoid damnation, because now we're aware of them. Can't claim ignorance! This "predestination" theory is what *some* protestant sects teach though : since Jesus died once, we just have to hand our hearts over to him and be done with it. Too bad it's not that simple.

As a Catholic, I can support Byblos' statements. The Church really does not have a position on evolutionary theory as long as it does not contradict basic teachings. Also, in regards to "messages of the Church", there's this general belief that many things Catholic Church states is dogmatic.
It's not.
There is dogmatic law and there are pastoral laws, which are **very** different. Thus, any position on evolutionary theories would be pastoral, if ever developed, not dogmatic, and thus, not a belief requirement for salvation. Honestly, I don't think God would care too much what we believed as long as we recognized He is the Creator. Period.
As for them teaching secular neo-darwinism, I'm not sure where that would even be happening. I was not raised in this way. Not by my parish, not by my parents or in my Catholic school. Perhaps it depends on what school board, how liberal they are or not, but if you are aware of this type of teaching, they're doing it incorrectly.
If you can show us where in the Catechism that says otherwise, then please, list it.

StMonica,

Just for the record, this is an old thread (more than 2 years) and Age has since moved on to bigger and better things.

Byblos wrote:StMonica,

Just for the record, this is an old thread (more than 2 years) and Age has since moved on to bigger and better things.

Oh ha. I probably should have looked at the date stamp