Evidence for God from Science

I feel like I have never felt Gods love in my life before. Is this a normal feeling?
I don't know if I'm feeling it right now and I'm just too dull to realize it, or if i've actually never felt it. I know a lot of my friends who are christians talk about Gods love, and they seem like they know its power. Is anyone else in the boat with me, or was in the boat a while ago?

Thanks for the help
In Him

Pumpkin Eater wrote:I feel like I have never felt Gods love in my life before. Is this a normal feeling?
I don't know if I'm feeling it right now and I'm just too dull to realize it, or if i've actually never felt it. I know a lot of my friends who are christians talk about Gods love, and they seem like they know its power. Is anyone else in the boat with me, or was in the boat a while ago?

This is an interesting question, and I'm sorry you are in a quandary over this. I wonder what your friends mean? I'd like to know that myself, lol. I don't generally hear people speaking like that. All of the time I just "know" that the Lord is with me, and to me, that is a type of love, I guess. It is not very often that I would say that I "feel" his "love" for me. So, I'm just wondering what your friends mean, since you seem to be relating it to their expressions. Do they mean they feel the Lord in them helping them to give love to others (which I think you can feel sometimes)? I'm not sure what to say without knowing more.

Thanks for the reply cslewislover, I guess I phrased it a little odd.

What I mean to express is the love, or joy that one gets from being a christian. Where is it supposed to come from - knowledge or God himself? Does it come from the feeling of being saved? - or perhaps the feeling that the creator of the universe loves you?
I know these things in my head, but for some reason they don't have the impact on me that they do on other people, mainly my christian peers. I just feel like I'm missing something in my life.

I've been struggling with drinking for a while now. I go to Penn State University, and it's always been a temptation to me. The first half of the semester I was abusing alcohol and getting drunk with different clubs I'm involved in. I would go to the socials every week, and go out to parties on weekends as well. I had grown up as a christian, so i had always known this was wrong, but I never had the will power to stop it. If everyone found out that I drank, the christians I am friends with would be upset. The people who look up to me would be lost, and my relationships with everyone around me would change. About 3 weeks ago I had my last drink, and I have been going pretty strong since then, but I don't think that it's enough. I continue to be tempted by the friends I have who parties, and I still long for the community that they provided. Why is this a problem?

My struggle is a mystery to me. Isn't this feeling supposed to be suppressed by God's generous love? Shouldn't I long for him above any sin? I shouldn't really desire to sin like that anymore, especially if I have such strong reasoning to not drink. But I always come close to breaking that bond, pretty much every week.

Thanks so much
In Him

cslewislover wrote:

Pumpkin Eater wrote:I feel like I have never felt Gods love in my life before. Is this a normal feeling?
I don't know if I'm feeling it right now and I'm just too dull to realize it, or if i've actually never felt it. I know a lot of my friends who are christians talk about Gods love, and they seem like they know its power. Is anyone else in the boat with me, or was in the boat a while ago?

This is an interesting question, and I'm sorry you are in a quandary over this. I wonder what your friends mean? I'd like to know that myself, lol. I don't generally hear people speaking like that. All of the time I just "know" that the Lord is with me, and to me, that is a type of love, I guess. It is not very often that I would say that I "feel" his "love" for me. So, I'm just wondering what your friends mean, since you seem to be relating it to their expressions. Do they mean they feel the Lord in them helping them to give love to others (which I think you can feel sometimes)? I'm not sure what to say without knowing more.

I agree that such talk about "God's love" can be overdone and said without any true reflection (just religious words strung together), but to be at a total loss as to what they are meaning I find a bit odd as a Christian... I'm sure you have felt "God's love" as the words you continue with evidence this to be the case, so it is just perhaps the nature of what they mean you do not understand or disagree with?

To explain, let's introduce the theologian Rudolf Otto who writes in his The Idea of the Holy:

The reader is invited to direct his mind to a moment of deeply-felt religious experience… Whoever cannot do this, whoever knows no such moments in his experience, is requested to read no farther; for it is not easy to discuss questions of religious psychology with one who can recollect the emotions of his adolescence, the discomforts of indigestion… but cannot recall any intrinsically religious feelings.

Otto seems to believe that in order to understand his topic of discussion with which he proceeds to go in, one needs a moment of disclosure or particular experience. He appears to think such experiences are a prerequisite for being able to disclose religious experiences in normal language, since the reader would then have a referential point in experience for understanding. Some, like your friends, describe such an experience as "God's love". Indeed, as a Christian, I believe I know what they mean. They are meaning an awareness of God, an intimate experience which those who have not had simply can not understand. Many Christians have these upon coming to Christ, some during worship, some on their knees praying, some in a church setting (although I do not believe such experiences are necessarily only had by Christians).

I can not imagine just having reasons for God's existence alone, without any such experiences to aid my belief in the existence of a personal non-deistic God. I'm not sure I could identify as a Christian and really believe in God as presented by Christ if the two did not go together.

Pumpkin Eater wrote:Thanks for the reply cslewislover, I guess I phrased it a little odd.

What I mean to express is the love, or joy that one gets from being a christian. Where is it supposed to come from - knowledge or God himself? Does it come from the feeling of being saved? - or perhaps the feeling that the creator of the universe loves you?
I know these things in my head, but for some reason they don't have the impact on me that they do on other people, mainly my christian peers. I just feel like I'm missing something in my life.

I've been struggling with drinking for a while now. I go to Penn State University, and it's always been a temptation to me. The first half of the semester I was abusing alcohol and getting drunk with different clubs I'm involved in. I would go to the socials every week, and go out to parties on weekends as well. I had grown up as a christian, so i had always known this was wrong, but I never had the will power to stop it. If everyone found out that I drank, the christians I am friends with would be upset. The people who look up to me would be lost, and my relationships with everyone around me would change. About 3 weeks ago I had my last drink, and I have been going pretty strong since then, but I don't think that it's enough. I continue to be tempted by the friends I have who parties, and I still long for the community that they provided. Why is this a problem?

My struggle is a mystery to me. Isn't this feeling supposed to be suppressed by God's generous love? Shouldn't I long for him above any sin? I shouldn't really desire to sin like that anymore, especially if I have such strong reasoning to not drink. But I always come close to breaking that bond, pretty much every week.

Thanks so much
In Him

Two things:

1. If by "feeling God's love" they are referring to some particularly deep religious experience--some mystical (I use that in the proper sense of the word, and in no way derogatorily) encounter with God--then let it just be. It's a good thing, sure. But people of ALL religions report such experiences, of feeling the benevolance of a higher or supreme being. What are we as Christians to say when a Muslim or Hindu tells us that he has "felt God's love"? Are we to challenge him and say that his experiences aren't real? Do that, and you get yourself into a LOT of trouble over what makes our experiences so different. And if we recognize that all people have, or can have, such experiences, regardless of their faith, then we must recognize "feeling God's love" isn't something that comes from having a proper theology or faith.

In short, such experiences can be good and comforting, but as they aren't necessarily tied to Truth (that is, a proper view of God), they are no indicator of the success or lackthereof of your own Christian walk. In that, you can take heart, because if you have had such experiences, good for you. And if you haven't, then there is no concern, because it doesn't mean that your walk is any better or worse than anyone else's.

2. Experiences are absolutely attached to emotion. That's why coldly analytical people have a more difficult time with them than emotionally oriented people. In your case, I could perhaps guess there were (are?) some feelings of guilt over your lifestyle. Perhaps another emotion comes into play in your last words. If you are trying to earn God's favor by "living right", you are bound to feel like the boy or girl who are always trying to earn the approval of their parents. In such cases, they always, almost without exception, end up feeling frustrated.

The key is to feel secure in your relationship with God. If you are busy feeling condemned (either consciously or subconsiously) then you are never going to feel "loved." If you feel you have to earn God's love, then you will find yourself in one of two places, depending on your personality.

a) People with "compliant" or "religious" natures are likely to fall headlong into the trap of pride. Convincing themselves that they actually have earned God's approval, they will judge others by the standard that they live. Such a life necessarily involves downplaying one's own fault and becoming judgmental of others.
b) People with "rebellious" or "introspective" natures are likely to fall headlong into the trap of self-revulsion. Seeing their sin for what it is, and realizing that they can never be "good enough" before God, they begin to condemn themselves. Such a life necessarily leads to more and more frustration and depression.

Both of these problems can be overcome by recognizing that you ARE saved if you have believed the Gospel. Rather than go into detail, let me link you to a very short, true story, written a long time ago by a well known evangelist named J. Wilbur Chapman.

Are You a Christian?

God bless

Jac3510 wrote:1... if we recognize that all people have, or can have, such experiences, regardless of their faith, then we must recognize "feeling God's love" isn't something that comes from having a proper theology or faith.In short, such experiences can be good and comforting, but as they aren't necessarily tied to Truth (that is, a proper view of God), they are no indicator of the success or lackthereof of your own Christian walk.

Good point. More than good, actually: Correct, accurate, precise.

Jac3510 wrote:2. Experiences are absolutely attached to emotion.

Yes. There is a current in modern Christianity towards strongly-felt emotions seizing worshippers. The stronger the emotion, the stronger your apparent faith.
I spell this C - R - A - P . A lot of Christians feed on this stuff.

Jac3510 wrote: ...coldly analytical people have a more difficult time with [emotional faith experiences] than emotionally oriented people.

Yes. I don't get all teary-eyed about God's love; I don't fall to the floor and twitch in the Spirit, either. My faith is strong and analytical in nature.

Jac3510 wrote:The key is to feel secure in your relationship with God.

Bingo, Jac3510

FL

FL wrote:

Jac3510 wrote: ...coldly analytical people have a more difficult time with [emotional faith experiences] than emotionally oriented people.

Yes. I don't get all teary-eyed about God's love; I don't fall to the floor and twitch in the Spirit, either. My faith is strong and analytical in nature.

I find it hard to believe your faith is 100% analytical in nature and so would like to clarify whether this is in fact what you are meaning...

Not that one needs to get all teary, but how do you know God is personal if you have not known any kind of [personal] experience? Would that not leave you feeling spiritually robbed and unfulfilled?

K

Pumpkin Eater wrote:Thanks for the reply cslewislover, I guess I phrased it a little odd.

What I mean to express is the love, or joy that one gets from being a christian. Where is it supposed to come from - knowledge or God himself? Does it come from the feeling of being saved? - or perhaps the feeling that the creator of the universe loves you?

Let me ask you something....when you are in a relationship with the one you love, doesn't the joy or rather excitement come from both?!?!? I mean, the more you know that person and the more you are with the person both contribute to the experinece of loving. IN addition, there is the committment to the loving of that person. So even on day swhere you don't feel like loving that person, you commit to being with that perons and loving them. So it is with a relationship with Christ....the mroe you know and experinece with HIm, the more you experience HIm. I would suggest immersing yourself in Him, in prayer, in song, in church....in His word.

Yes, there can be joy in the study and analytical part of understanding HIm....but we should always be willing to enjoy Him, whether this means worhshipping in church, serving the Body, finding those songs that touch us.

There are imtes in church when I am singing that I do feel the awe in Him and being saved then there are days when I am just...learning or even....patiently waiting for the end. And we mustn'y rely on the "gushy" feeling that songs give us , just as we learn that no relationship will ever always be that continual gushy feeling of infatuation.

I know these things in my head, but for some reason they don't have the impact on me that they do on other people, mainly my christian peers. I just feel like I'm missing something in my life.

YOu know, ask Him for understanding this. Never ever feel like you can't go to Him. And be honest....Ask HIm to show you AHis love, whether this is through emotions or through understanding. He will be faithful.

I've been struggling with drinking for a while now. I go to Penn State University, and it's always been a temptation to me. The first half of the semester I was abusing alcohol and getting drunk with different clubs I'm involved in. I would go to the socials every week, and go out to parties on weekends as well. I had grown up as a christian, so i had always known this was wrong, but I never had the will power to stop it. If everyone found out that I drank, the christians I am friends with would be upset. The people who look up to me would be lost, and my relationships with everyone around me would change. About 3 weeks ago I had my last drink, and I have been going pretty strong since then, but I don't think that it's enough. I continue to be tempted by the friends I have who parties, and I still long for the community that they provided. Why is this a problem?

My advice....Find a GOOD Christian group like intervarsity or Campus Crusade that you can go for support. Everyone who goes to college finds that if they don't find a solid support group they will fall. Go, check out the groups in the college. In a big collge like Penn State there will certianly be a good group. And usually they have weekly meetings and bible studies and their own get-togethers and parties. Lots of fun.

My struggle is a mystery to me. Isn't this feeling supposed to be suppressed by God's generous love? Shouldn't I long for him above any sin? I shouldn't really desire to sin like that anymore, especially if I have such strong reasoning to not drink. But I always come close to breaking that bond, pretty much every week.

Even Paul states to "flee sexual immorality". We aren't supposed to stay in places that tempt us, even as strong CHrstians. In fact, the stronger the AChristian, the wiser the actions. Pastors and elders are taught to never ever counsel a woman alone, not because they are weak, per se, but because we are *all* prey to temptation. Alcoholics learn to never let themselves have a drink. We aren't supposed to expose ourselves to needless temptation!

Been there, hope it helps.

Kurieuo wrote:I find it hard to believe your faith is 100% analytical in nature and so would like to clarify whether this is in fact what you are meaning...Not that one needs to get all teary, but how do you know God is personal if you have not known any kind of [personal] experience? Would that not leave you feeling spiritually robbed and unfulfilled? K

Well, my mindset is analytical. Your question:

Kurieuo wrote: but how do you know God is personal if you have not known any kind of [personal] experience?

I have had a personal salvation experience. That occured when I repented and accepted Jesus as Lord. There was a feeling of peace and joy which persists to this day.

I never said that my faith is 100% analytical. Perhaps the way I worded my post gave that impression. Allow me to reword: My understanding of the Bible is analytical, not emotional. I seek first to know what the Scriptures say, I listen to them and know that they are from God. I never start to cry or spew off in «tongues» as a result of my study of God's word.

...the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonicans, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. -Ac 17:11

Appreciation and joy for what Jesus accomplished for me are given by my study of the Bible. In this sense my faith is analytical.

FL