Evidence for God from Science

Good morning,

I'm hoping you will all be willing to help me, I consider myself undecided in the religion area, but this is of no import to the question I ask. I am writing about abortion & the early Christian church and would like some guidance please.

I understand that abortion is wrong from the Christian point of view, but from what I have looked into (which I will admit is mainly non-Christian sources) I'm struggling to find how the belief of the early Church varied from that of some of the 'pagan' medical authors such as Hippocrates who wrote 'I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody if asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy'. (The Oath, Edelstein translation)

How does the Christian view differ from this? Is it the that the reasons for abortion being wrong were different? If yes, could you point me in the direction of where the reasons for abortion being wrong are please? For either the Christians or the 'pagans' if you feel like it, although I think I've found most of my 'pagan' sources.

I'm not looking for a diatribe about how evil abortion is, I understand this point of view. I also understand I may have offended people by claiming that the Christian view is very similar to some 'pagan' views so I apologise for that as it was not my intention.

the lady wrote:I understand that abortion is wrong from the Christian point of view, but from what I have looked into (which I will admit is mainly non-Christian sources) I'm struggling to find how the belief of the early Church varied from that of some of the 'pagan' medical authors such as Hippocrates who wrote 'I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody if asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy'. (The Oath, Edelstein translation)

How does the Christian view differ from this? Is it the that the reasons for abortion being wrong were different? If yes, could you point me in the direction of where the reasons for abortion being wrong are please? For either the Christians or the 'pagans' if you feel like it, although I think I've found most of my 'pagan' sources.

I am not sure I understand what you are asking. The oath you quoted would support the rights of all human life, both born and unborn. How does this differ from the Christian view?

That's kinda my point. From most of the things I have read both 'pagan' and Christian views seem similar, but any time I ask a teacher about it she tells me that the views are very different and gets a bit offended that I seem to be suggesting that they are similar.

I understand that she's probably trying to tell me the reasons behind the Christian 'abortion is wrong' are different, but I can't find anything that tells me WHY it is wrong, other than 'thou shalt not kill', obviously.

There must be other reasons behind it, or am I just being dense and this is in fact the only reason that it is wrong?

Sorry to be unclear.

the lady wrote:That's kinda my point. From most of the things I have read both 'pagan' and Christian views seem similar, but any time I ask a teacher about it she tells me that the views are very different and gets a bit offended that I seem to be suggesting that they are similar.

I understand that she's probably trying to tell me the reasons behind the Christian 'abortion is wrong' are different, but I can't find anything that tells me WHY it is wrong, other than 'thou shalt not kill', obviously.

There must be other reasons behind it, or am I just being dense and this is in fact the only reason that it is wrong?

Sorry to be unclear.

No problem (I hope).
If I understand you, then, maybe this will help;
All of life is highly regarded by God, He wants all of us to have everlasting life with Him.

Science is in agreement that life begins at inception so, to abort a fetus is considered by many of us to be murder or the unessasary taking away of human life.

In the case of abortion, the victim is the most defensless of all and has no choice in the matter.

You may want to read some of the abortion threads here to get a broader view.

As for the pagans of to day, I haven't seen any groups of them protesting abortion.

the lady wrote:I understand that she's probably trying to tell me the reasons behind the Christian 'abortion is wrong' are different, but I can't find anything that tells me WHY it is wrong, other than 'thou shalt not kill', obviously.

Is it wrong for a parent to kill their unwanted baby?

God has placed a conscience within us. Asking why aboriton is wrong, IMO, is like asking why is murder wrong. I mean we could just look at the bible and say, "because God said so." Yes, that is true, but why did God say it. Because His law is a reflection of His character. It reveals the truth that He is holy, righteous, just and good. And God holds life in His hand.

I don't think it is completely unusual for non-christians to arrive at Christian conclusions. Even people without faith can and do have moral awareness (conscience) In fact Paul tells us in Acts that this is the case. "when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) Rom 2:14-15

In fact quoting Hippocrates, you must understand that many of his conclusions were drawn because he had rejected the superstitions of the pagan religion.

You must also understand that one can argue against abortion without once quoting scripture.

Scientifically speaking we must admit that every person ever born is a case study that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that conception begins a human life. It is up to that culture to decide on the value of such human life. The moral foundations of that culture will ultimately impact whether it protects unborn human life, or regards it with no value. One can argue and debate whether human life does or does not have value at any particular stage of development. But to even attempt to debate that it is or isn't human is intellectually dishonest in the highest degree.

Abortion isn't wrong because it is "Christian" wrong. No more than murder or rape are wrong because Christians say so. They are wrong because they are absolutely wrong. God has made it so evident, that even a pagan, without access to a bible, could logically come to the conclusion with only the aid of his conscience to guide him.

So, to show that one can come to a moral absolute conclusion apart from knowing God or the scriptures demonstrates God's will that none should perish and confirms Paul's statment that God has in fact written His law on the hearts of mankind.

A similar conclusion doesn't mean the premises are the same.

Christian opposition to abortion is based upon the premise that Human life has value because humans are created in the image of God. Traditionally, that image is seen to come at the time of conception therefore, morally and ethically a child in the womb, regardless of how far along the pregnancy is, is human and deserved both individual and social protection.

That said, a Pagan, such as Hippocrates could come to the same conclusion as to society's responsibility and the physician's responsibility to protect and not harm human life on a different basis. There are, for example, pro-life atheists. They wouldn't refer at all to the image of God or the value of human life on that basis. They might build their case, for example on the premise that society requires protection of it's weakest and most vulnerable members in order that all members of that society experience security and protection from exploitation or termination in other situations as well. There could be other reasons as well. However, the predominant view in the US of those who are Pro-Life is based upon a moral evaluation based upon a belief in God and the nature of Man as created in the image of God. So, sometimes the error is made to assume that a Pro-Life position can only be a religiously drawn position. That simply isn't the case.