Evidence for God from Science

Who are we? Are we meat? Are we soul? If we're pure spirit how come that sometimes we do not remember the end of Friday? It's a very simple question. I'm not trying to be spitefull towards strong believers. I want them to help me believe. Ge to it, people.

We are eternal spirits living in temporal biological bodies. Things we do with and in our bodies can affect both our physical and our spiritual condition. You'll have to be more specific though as your post doesn't make a lot of sense yet.

Thanks. My question makes all the sense it needs to make. Can the ethernal spirit get drunk or "high" on drugs?

jake7264 wrote:Thanks. My question makes all the sense it needs to make. Can the ethernal spirit get drunk or "high" on drugs?

I am sure that you believe it does and it might to you; however, communication with others is often not so straight forward as clarification may actually be required from the receiving party in order to respond accurately.

To answer this question is to state that the two are intertwined until you die. I can tell you that drunkeness is sin and affects your spiritual health in a negative way. When I used to get drunk with my friends and smoke pot, I could reach a point of intoxication where I was unable to properly function, black out and not remember what I said or did. I don't believe; however, my spirit was drunk just affected by my biological intoxication. When I dropped LSD I could believe I was having spiritual trips and talking with aliens and whatnot but again, that was the perception due to a self-induced (usually self-induced anyways) biological condition and not actually happening.

You can engage in spiritual activities that can benefit or damage your spirit health and yes we can experience metaphysical "highs" as you call them.

BAD: For example, you can put yourself into a trance or even induce an out of body experience (even without the aid of drugs or by means that has a basis in pharmacology) and with or without the aid of the occult. These are undesirable; however, as the first can leave you vulnerable to the influence of demons and the second is actual communion with them.

GOOD: Christians often experience spiritual highs through worship and closeness to God and this can result in external manifestations such as speaking in tongues, prophecy, words of knowledge, etc... These are positive, desirable, and good for spiritual growth, however, as they are a direct result of communion with God not fallen angels.

I hope this helps.

We getting somewhere. Second reply does answer some of my question. To make my question perfectly clear to everyone here goes the definition of soul:
"From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In many religions, spiritual traditions, and philosophies, the soul is the spiritual or immaterial part of a living being, often regarded as eternal. It is usually thought to consist of one's consciousness and personality, and can be synonymous with the spirit, mind or self."

Don't get too hung up on on the substance mentioned in my question. It can be any chemical altering perception, any kind of anestesy, nock on the head while falling down the stairs e.t.c

Now, can someone tell me PLEASE- "Yes, it's perfectly logical and does not disagree with the dogma that a soul can be affected by chemicals"

For the record, Jake, I think you have a valid argument. But then again, I'm not a dualist (one who believes that human beings are souls driving around bodies). Classical theism, the position held by the historic church until a couple hundred years ago--but still by many today, even if we are becoming a minority--holds to what it called composite dualism. The bottom line is that we would just reject the notion that we are actually some ghostly souls. We are, fundamentally, bodies.

Now, the discussion gets very deep as far as the immaterial aspect of man, what we call "soul" or "spirit", but in no way should those words be taken to refer to the popular usage of them. So, for the sake of your question, I'd just deny it flatly. There was a thread around here not too long ago about that, actually . . .

Ah, here it is:

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 19&t=33404

Enjoy

Interesting discussion you linked in jac. I'm reading it now. What was St Augustine's position?

Augustine was a Platonist, AoK. He held to what is called platonic dualism, which isn't the same as Cartesian dualism, but definitely still a form of substance dualism. I would guess that most Christians today--the popular version that Jake is questioning--is somewhere between Augustine and Descartes, probably shading more toward Augustine.

Thank you jac.

Any time, duders

Taking the original question a bit further, why do some brain-damaged individuals change their behavior and personalities so dramatically? Does anyone have any theories as to how and why physical impairment or damage to the brain impacts the soul?

One reference: http://ezinearticles.com/?Personality-C ... id=2218105

Since I don't make enough of a distinction between the soul and the body to warrant a fuss, obviously, for me, brain damage affects personality because physical structure of the body has been altered so as to impair its function, which includes personality. I would be interested how others who hold to a more (substance) dualistic approach answer this though. It's a good question.

I don't believe we are held accountable for that which occurs outside our control. For example, the Christian that develops a tumor in their brain that grows to the point where they black out and kill themself. Since this was not a conscious decision on their part, they simply are not accountable and I don't believe it negatively affects their soul which proceeds to heaven. Now if they had drunk themself into a black out and killed themself, we have a different matter.

ageofknowledge wrote:I don't believe we are held accountable for that which occurs outside our control. For example, the Christian that develops a tumor in their brain that grows to the point where they black out and kill themself. Since this was not a conscious decision on their part, they simply are not accountable and I don't believe it negatively affects their soul which proceeds to heaven. Now if they had drunk themself into a black out and killed themself, we have a different matter.

I agree.

But my question is on the role of the soul wrt personality, behavior, conscience, consciousness, etc. IOW Where are consciousness, conscience, and personality "located"?

waynepii wrote:

ageofknowledge wrote:I don't believe we are held accountable for that which occurs outside our control. For example, the Christian that develops a tumor in their brain that grows to the point where they black out and kill themself. Since this was not a conscious decision on their part, they simply are not accountable and I don't believe it negatively affects their soul which proceeds to heaven. Now if they had drunk themself into a black out and killed themself, we have a different matter.

I agree.

But my question is on the role of the soul wrt personality, behavior, conscience, consciousness, etc. IOW Where are consciousness, conscience, and personality "located"?

Good question. Jac, I think, believes the spirit/soul/body are one and would be located in a certain time and place at a given time and place. He could be right.