Evidence for God from Science

The site “Evidence for God...” explains that evil has to exist so we have a choice. I got no problem with this concept. Makes sense.
Now. Let's have one hard look at the planet. You don't eat, you die. The whole thing is BASED on things eating things. Is it OK to rip the chickens head off every now and than or cook ALIVE carrot just to survive? Is it OK to kill on daily basis? Those questions are not aimed at livestock producers.
Those will probably copy couple of verses from the bible saying that God gave us the rest of animal kingdom as food source. So it's OK to plunge a lobster in boiling water...

jake7264 wrote:The site “Evidence for God...” explains that evil has to exist so we have a choice. I got no problem with this concept. Makes sense.
Now. Let's have one hard look at the planet. You don't eat, you die. The whole thing is BASED on things eating things. Is it OK to rip the chickens head off every now and than or cook ALIVE carrot just to survive? Is it OK to kill on daily basis? Those questions are not aimed at livestock producers.
Those will probably copy couple of verses from the bible saying that God gave us the rest of animal kingdom as food source. So it's OK to plunge a lobster in boiling water...

I like alive carrots and living green beans...

Well, if a person doesn't eat - he/she will not live. So then, will the carrot and green beans become murderers?

Anyways, back to reality: The answer is found in Genesis chapters one and two...
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I would say eat up, ask God to bless the food you are about to receive, and be glad you aren't an animal. Imago Dei friend.

Why did God even "invent" predation?

Green beans are definitely killers. They suck the water together with all microelements that could have been used by neighbouring grass that's no longer so green. Hell knows what else are the evil bast..ds killing in the process. Whole civilizations of microbes might die out in the region...

Why did God even "invent" predation?

Why is this a problem?

Off topic, but I once had an atheist argue with me that there was no God, because we deficate. Seriously.

jlay wrote:

Why did God even "invent" predation?

Why is this a problem?

It's not a problem, but it seems to me a bit out of character. Many species survive by eating vegetation exclusively. Why design species which can only survive by killing and eating other species? Control of the population is the only "benefit" of predation, but couldn't He have come up with a less cruel and more effective method than predation? Now that man has essentially negated predation as a population control of homo sapiens, what fall-back strategy does He have in the wings? Disease? Famine? War? Extinction?

I guess I could walk up to Salvador Dali and say, "why?" to his creation.
1st: Can you specifically show us how predation conflicts with the character of God as revealed in the Christian bible?

2nd: From what perspective are you arriving at predation being cruel?

Let us suppose that god is not, and that our world is merely the result of mindless events. What you view as cruel is simply an illusion of the mind, as is love, joy, etc. Therefore predation is no more biologically cruel than a plant consuming sun rays during photosynthesis. There is all kinds of predation going on at the biological level, and you don't give it a second thought.

Or, could it be that the very thing you attempt to use to cast dispersions upon God, is in fact proof He exist. When you see a living thing sacrificed at the expense of another's survival, it offends your senses. There is something within you that says, "something is wrong." And you are exactly right my friend. Something is terribly wrong between God and man, and the violence on display in nature is evidence of that fractured relationship. But that fracture is more personal that you can imagine. The blood is on your/my hands.

Regardless of how we may feel about predation, killing, or maybe just eating meat, before you can legitimately ask who created, you have to know if the ability to create is possessed. I doubt one would argue or question whether or not God has the ability to create, but what about Satan? The bible certainly doesn't support a Satan that has the ability to create, in fact an arguement could be made that Satan's specialty is antithetical to God's.

waynepii wrote:Why did God even "invent" predation?

To curb overpopulation..

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/death.html

jlay wrote:1st: Can you specifically show us how predation conflicts with the character of God as revealed in the Christian bible?

Of course not. The Bible was written long after predators were commonplace and therefore treats them as such.

2nd: From what perspective are you arriving at predation being cruel?

Would you want to be eaten? No? That's probably a good indicator that predation should be an "undesirable" activity in a perfect world.

Let us suppose that god is not, and that our world is merely the result of mindless events. What you view as cruel is simply an illusion of the mind, as is love, joy, etc. Therefore predation is no more biologically cruel than a plant consuming sun rays during photosynthesis. There is all kinds of predation going on at the biological level, and you don't give it a second thought.

Sounds like it came out of the atheist's book of sayings .

Or, could it be that the very thing you attempt to use to cast dispersions upon God, is in fact proof He exist. When you see a living thing sacrificed at the expense of another's survival, it offends your senses. There is something within you that says, "something is wrong." And you are exactly right my friend. Something is terribly wrong between God and man, and the violence on display in nature is evidence of that fractured relationship. But that fracture is more personal that you can imagine. The blood is on your/my hands.

I don't see that God must be the source of morality. All social animals have codes of behavior to keep their societies functioning. "Morality" is simply a refined code of conduct that keeps our society functioning.

waynepii wrote: I don't see that God must be the source of morality. All social animals have codes of behavior to keep their societies functioning. "Morality" is simply a refined code of conduct that keeps our society functioning.

Really? Do you lock you doors at night?

That's probably a good indicator that predation should be an "undesirable" activity in a perfect world.

In a godless world, what does desire have to do with anything? You are trying to impose your desires on biology. The bible explains that today's world is not fallen, but broken.

All social animals have codes of behavior to keep their societies functioning.

You want to compare social instincts to mankind's morality. Please. Look at mankind, and the problems we have that arrise out of people's willful disobedience to moral code.

Sounds like it came out of the atheist's book of sayings

Uh, that was my point. And a pretty sad view of life if I do say so myself. If there is no God, then the guy that breaks in your home, ties you up, rapes your wife, and kills you both, is only breaking a code of behavior. It isn't evil. Afterall, biologically speaking, his desire for money, sex and the urge to kill is just as valid as your desire to live. It's ust predation afterall.

jlay wrote:

That's probably a good indicator that predation should be an "undesirable" activity in a perfect world.

In a godless world, what does desire have to do with anything? You are trying to impose your desires on biology. The bible explains that today's world is not fallen, but broken.

All social animals have codes of behavior to keep their societies functioning.

You want to compare social instincts to mankind's morality. Please. Look at mankind, and the problems we have that arrise out of people's willful disobedience to moral code.

Sounds like it came out of the atheist's book of sayings

Uh, that was my point. And a pretty sad view of life if I do say so myself. If there is no God, then the guy that breaks in your home, ties you up, rapes your wife, and kills you both, is only breaking a code of behavior. It isn't evil. Afterall, biologically speaking, his desire for money, sex and the urge to kill is just as valid as your desire to live. It's ust predation afterall.

And in a world without a secular justice system, that same guy has nothing to fear until he dies - so there's nothing to inhibit his desires or to remove him from society.

waynepii wrote: And in a world without a secular justice system, that same guy has nothing to fear until he dies - so there's nothing to inhibit his desires or to remove him from society.

You got it! So much for the morality thing not coming from God