Genesis & 24-hr days (The scientific proof for Genesis thread)

[CAT]

I read both articles that several of you had supplied concerning Genesis being a long drawn out process. It has its points, but truthfully not valid enough for me simply because I am a little more knowledgeable than that. Off hand I see a lot of things incorrect in both those articles from this website. And unfortunately I see that there are many people who diligently cling to evolutionary precepts. But I will let you in on a little secret and then you can go on the search for yourself if you don't believe me.

A surprising factor that comes into play regarding radioisotope and carbon dating, that gives a ample answer to why the earth and living and nonliving things are analyzed and found to be millions or billions of years old. This has to do with a world-wide flood which geologists are now fully discovering that the whole earth was once completely covered by “marine sedimentation”. This is marine fossils which are found in all rock strata. This being the case, rocks and marine fossils that are exposed to water for a length of time (even a short time) such as the creation of the earth before G-d separated the waters from the land, and additionally again at the time of the great flood can cause the elements to leak out do to solubility. Such as salts of uranium and other radioactive elements, which if you are not privy to know, are quite capable of dissolving in water. If this is true, which I believe it is, this makes all the long age measurements completely useless! There is much evidence to how water can effect radioactive dating, one such account can be found in Hawaii at the volcano “Kilauea” that was recorded to have erupted less than 200 years ago. When this occurred the lava from this eruption was submerged under water and was later dated to be 22 million years old. And there are several other cases that I cant bring to mind at the present moment, but you might be able to pull it up from a Google search.

So its not merely that you can pull the misguided tidbits out of the Genesis account to fit the evolutionary precepts, but that there is much more that goes into understanding this. One must have all the facts before they can truly make any sort of worthy assessment.

You have been found lacking.

So important is the understanding of the individual 24 hour days that G-d went one step further and made sure to incorporate it into His 10 commandments. Deuteronomy 5:12-15 - Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your G-d has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your G-d. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your G-d brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your G-d has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

And no, I do not wish to carry this conversation elsewhere… it is where it is.

[Byblos]

CAT,

I've split your post from the other thread so as to keep it on topic (as Gman requested).

Carry on.

Post Edit: Folks I don't know exactly what happened but in the course of splitting CAT's post from the other thread and for whatever reason the entire old thread has disappeared. I've done this (splitting) countless times and never had a problem. I am looking to see if I can find a trace of it to restore it but it's not looking good. My apologies to all who contributed to that thread, I assure you it was not intentional.

Ok, found it here (I swear it had disappeared, or else I need some sleep).

[Gabrielman]

This being the case, rocks and marine fossils that are exposed to water for a length of time (even a short time) such as the creation of the earth before G-d separated the waters from the land, and additionally again at the time of the great flood can cause the elements to leak out do to solubility. Such as salts of uranium and other radioactive elements, which if you are not privy to know, are quite capable of dissolving in water. If this is true, which I believe it is, this makes all the long age measurements completely useless!

That all sounds very nice, except you miss one fact, the flood didn't cover the entire earth. Let me take Psalm 104:9 for instance, "You set a boundary they cannot cross; never again will they cover the earth." Here the author is speaking of the waters that first covered the earth and how they would never cover the entire earth again, and to this day they have not. The flood account in Genesis is speaking of a local flood, one that is documented and proven to have happened around the same time as Noah was around. This fact dislodges the idea that water tampered with the elements and caused problems with the dating. Now either Psalm 104:9 is wrong, or the flood was not global and the "global flood" idea is a missinterpritation of the text. Or the flood account is wrong and it never happened if Psalm 104:9 is correct. I believe Psalm 104:9 is correct and the flood story is also true, but that the text was missinterprited.
I won't waste time explaining this, there is an article on this site that does that quite well.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... fZIPq3LaPg
Now if this is true, and I hold that it is, then the idea you mentioned above is not true in all cases. One other thing you are missing is that it isn't just fossils and such on earth that give us the age of earth and the universe, there are other planets and stars that tell us these same things along with other messuerments from earth.

So its not merely that you can pull the misguided tidbits out of the Genesis account to fit the evolutionary precepts, but that there is much more that goes into understanding this. One must have all the facts before they can truly make any sort of worthy assessment.

Hmmm... misguided... and not all OEC believe in evolution. I don't believe in evolution at all, and I am a day age/progressive (aka OEC).

So important is the understanding of the individual 24 hour days that G-d went one step further and made sure to incorporate it into His 10 commandments. Deuteronomy 5:12-15 - Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your G-d has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your G-d. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your G-d brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your G-d has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Yes this is God's comand and it should be observed. That said it does not prove the days were 24 hour days. No where in this text is that even mentioned.
http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... mP0CIT2emJ
I would like you to read the link above, as it adresses this issue. I don't have enough time to adress the issues of YEC right now, and would love to discuss this later.
Sorry for the short post, in a hurry.
God bless!

[CAT]

Sadly, what I often find about such sites like this that I visit is that people are very misinformed. For one thing that article that you cited for me tells me that the when G-d created the earth is was not "perfect" but "very good". What's happening here is that you guys are twisting (or should I say spinning) words around to fit your own premises. You have to remember that Hebrew is what's called a "conceptual language" which means that one word can have several meanings. However when you try to attempt to change "very good" into not "perfect", or actual 24 hour days into long drawn out years, or change the meaning of world-wide flood into just a local flood this than turns into a doctrine of devils.

Sometimes I wonder if there are dis-informants that infiltrate these types of websites for the main purpose of deceiving weak minded people.

[cslewislover]

Maybe you should do a search of "perfect," as there are threads that discuss what you are saying. There are no dis-informants here. Yes, there are genuine disagreements amongst people of genuine faith on word meanings, contexts, etc. What matters the most is that one loves the Lord and loves their brothers and sisters.

[Gabrielman]

However when you try to attempt to change "very good" into not "perfect", or actual 24 hour days into long drawn out years, or change the meaning of world-wide flood into just a local flood this than turns into a doctrine of devils.

Oh really? You may not realize this, but it is illogical for God to make a perfect earth when He already knew that humans were going to fall. He made it very good, but not perfect, and that does not make it a doctrine of the devils. It is another interpritaion of the hebrew words that is possible. The words at times had many meanigns, and simply dissmissing us as wrong because that isn't how it is in the english is hardly an argument.

Sometimes I wonder if there are dis-informants that infiltrate these types of websites for the main purpose of deceiving weak minded people.

There is no one here like that, and we are not weak minded. Read the rules on the board for OEC/YEC disscussions before continuing please.
God bless!

[CAT]

I think the original question was evaded, that's why I didn't want to veer away from the other thread that showed Gmans analysis for the creation days of Genesis to be correct. My whole premise was just to simply point out that NOW that the Genesis account of creation was proved to be correct we now know that (and can rely) on G-d's words being correct. The number one thing that this shows (and proves) is that G-d is not a liar. Therefore, we must also take Him for His LITERAL WORD which happens to be the rest of the Bible. We cannot merely continue to debacle about idiosyncrasies between word meanings of the Hebrew words. WE MUST BELIEVE THE LITERAL WORD!

I know this is a hard thing to do for man especially in this era of science, but we must not have strong delusion over us. For narrow is the path to Heaven.

[limerick]

Just as a matter of interest guys, but when do ye believe that the Great Flood occured? as in 4,000BC, 3,000BC etc.

[Gabrielman]

I think the original question was evaded, that's why I didn't want to veer away from the other thread that showed Gmans analysis for the creation days of Genesis to be correct. My whole premise was just to simply point out that NOW that the Genesis account of creation was proved to be correct we now know that (and can rely) on G-d's words being correct. The number one thing that this shows (and proves) is that G-d is not a liar. Therefore, we must also take Him for His LITERAL WORD which happens to be the rest of the Bible. We cannot merely continue to debacle about idiosyncrasies between word meanings of the Hebrew words. WE MUST BELIEVE THE LITERAL WORD!

I am not evading the question, I am simply trying to show that the Word isn't always literal. There are times that it is figurative, like in Revelation. I also happen to believe that the serpent wasn't actually a snake, but the fallen angel lucifer. No one said God was a liar, but we cannot take all things literally. The Word does not say the days were 24 hours. It is very possible that each day was a long period of time. This is not a demonic doctrine, this shows that God is intelligent enough to create the universe through complex means. You may not be aware of this, but this site is what saved my faith. If it had not been for this site, you may be talking to an atheist today. God lead me here to see the glory of His work. Look at the entire universe, look at the stars and the moon and the sun, they are all a testament to His glory. I believe He used complex means to create these things. This does not mean I am not saved, nor is this a doctrine from the devil. We both agree that God Himself created the universe, do we not? So then why is it so important as to how He did it. I was simply trying to explain the whys and hows of my beliefs. I would be more than happy to discuss this with you, but only if you stop saying that it is a devil's doctrine.

I know this is a hard thing to do for man especially in this era of science, but we must not have strong delusion over us. For narrow is the path to Heaven.

I agree that the path to Heaven is a narrow one, but how is being OEC not on the path to Heaven? I believe in Christ, that He came down and showed us how to live, and died for our sins, and rose from the grave to conquer hell and the grave, and that He ascended to Heaven to be with the Father. So I fail to see why being OEC would lead me astray when it is what strengthened my faith.

Just as a matter of interest guys, but when do ye believe that the Great Flood occured? as in 4,000BC, 3,000BC etc.

I am not sure about the exact date, but I believe your estimate is very close.

[CAT]

You may not be aware of this, but this site is what saved my faith. If it had not been for this site, you may be talking to an atheist today. God lead me here to see the glory of His work. Look at the entire universe, look at the stars and the moon and the sun, they are all a testament to His glory. I believe He used complex means to create these things.

This is very GOOD Gabriel! Our goal in life is a spiritual and intellectual perfection. I checked your profile out on the site and see that you are only 21 years old. Stay on the path... as time goes by, I assure you that you will begin to understand more and more.

[Gman]

Just as a matter of interest guys, but when do ye believe that the Great Flood occured? as in 4,000BC, 3,000BC etc.

We don't believe in a global flood... We believe what the Bible says about it.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... yrluMnaUwV

[CAT]

Gman, once again twisting words to your own premises. That article was not completely thorough enough, nor was it logically thought out. Again, one needs all the facts before they can make a worthy assessment.

There are other obvious things to contend with that also indicative a worldwide flood and this has to do with drastic weather changes on the earth. One such proof of this happens to be the finding of frozen Woolly mammoths in the arctic with warm weather tropical foods still frozen inside their stomachs, meaning that a catastrophic event happened since the environment that they were living in was once originally warm weather and not the cold arctic that we are now familiar with today.

The Bible also happens to be very descriptive about the flood! And it happens to back up what science knows about "hydrology", as well as the earths topography and plate tectonics! The Bible tells us that when Noah's flood occurred it caused the mountains to "rise" and the valleys to "sink" down with water. Eventually the water was above all the mountains. Why do you think they find so many fossils that are high up in layers of rock and mountains ALL OVER THE WORLD? This is because they were pushed up there by the rising water and died there.

The flood was clearly an event that drastically effected the whole earth since it altered weather conditions that stretched far away from just the local area of the Middle East region.

[Gman]

Gman, once again twisting words to your own premises. That article was not completely thorough enough, nor was it logically thought out. Again, one needs all the facts before they can make a worthy assessment.

There are other obvious things to contend with that also indicative a worldwide flood and this has to do with drastic weather changes on the earth. One such proof of this happens to be the finding of frozen Woolly mammoths in the arctic with warm weather tropical foods still frozen inside their stomachs, meaning that a catastrophic event happened since the environment that they were living in was once originally warm weather and not the cold arctic that we are now familiar with today.

I use to believe in YEC and use to defend it strongly.. No one is denying that there were local catastrophes in the world. But not on a global scale.. Contrary to your beliefs, there are not millions of dead things buried throughout the world. Only a handful..

The Bible also happens to be very descriptive about the flood! And it happens to back up what science knows about "hydrology", as well as the earths topography and plate tectonics! The Bible tells us that when Noah's flood occurred it caused the mountains to "rise" and the valleys to "sink" down with water. Eventually the water was above all the mountains. Why do you think they find so many fossils that are high up in layers of rock and mountains ALL OVER THE WORLD? This is because they were pushed up there by the rising water and died there.

The flood was clearly an event that effected the whole earth since it altered weather conditions.

It's not true.. There are no marine fossils found in the igneous rocks layers of the mountains..

Consider the evidence here... http://www.answersincreation.org/floodlist.htm

[CAT]

I use to believe in YEC and use to defend it strongly.. No one is denying that there were local catastrophes in the world. But not on a global scale.. Contrary to your beliefs, there are not millions of dead things buried throughout the world. Only a handful..

You wouldn't consider finding a warm climate drastically changing into a freezing cold climate a global scale catastrophe? Especially with the evidence found within the stomachs of the animals that once lived there.

It's not true.. There are no marine fossils found in the igneous rocks layers of the mountains..

Consider the evidence here... http://www.answersincreation.org/floodlist.htm

You might want to point me to where I am supposed to read this, because I'm not finding it in the site that you supplied.

[CAT]

And although I don't believe in carbon dating, these frozen mammoths were aged relatively young at around 10,000 years old.