Evidence for God from Science

I am wondering your thoughts on the one flesh in love relationship being in Heaven, or rather the new earth that most people actually mean when they say Heaven. Is not Heaven the restoration of the Garden of Eden, and a return to the perfection God created and all the things He decided were good, which definatly includes the one man one woman one flesh relationship between Adam and Eve. One flesh does not refer to sex in that verse it refers to being in love, for when Adam and Eve had sex they were not one flesh, but instead it says that they knew each other.

The Garden of Eden would have lasted forever if sin had not occured, and so Adam and Eve would have been in love forever and reproduction would have existed forever.

Jesus very much supports marriage between one man and one woman with no divorce, which supports the idea that it is the right and true way for things to be and as they will be when sin is taken out of the world.

As everything that is wrong with this world is because of sin, the Garden of Eden was perfect adn without sin, sin entered the picture and messed everything up into what we have here and now, then sin will be removed and will have Heaven, this does not eliminate our exclusive one man one woman one flesh in love relationships, but instead makes them better because we will not need to marry or be given in marriage in order to keep and have and establish those relationships.

Jesus says that we will not marry or be given in marriage in Heaven, in that way we will be like the angels. All we know about angels is that they sometimes serve as messengers of God, all thoughts about them being genderless and not having sex and such is speculation. Also Jesus says we will not marry or be given in marriage, not tha tmarriage doesnt exist, not that one flesh doesnt exist, not that in love doesnt exist.

Adam and Eve did not marry and were not given in marriage, but by definition of their love for each other they had a relationship that we here on this world refer to as marriage, which was being one flesh.

Just as the fall resulted in Moses writing a law for divorce that was allowed just as polygmy was tolerated in the OT days, Jesus then came and pushed us closer to the true in love relationship meant to have by saying that divorce shouldnt occur and such.

Jesus says that divorce only occured/occurs bcause men didnt understand and had hard hearts, the same is true of why we marry and be given in marriage. We marry and are given in marriage in this world as a result of the fall, on the new earth we will not need to marry or be given in marriage to show that two people are one flesh and in love with each other and only each other, what would it do, it would be useless, in a perfect world without sin and temptation and such, what would having a piece of paper and a law stating two people are married when they already know they are one flesh with each other and only each other adn wills pend eternity worshiping God together forever?

Just as we will not need a birth certificate to tell us who are parents are we will not need to marry or be given in marriage to have an exclusive in love relationship. But we will still have a relationshp with our parents as our parents, and our lover as our lover, but it will be better then it possibly could be here, but sin gets in the way and enters our logic and distorts our views so we cannot see how the relationsihps would really be without sin, because even the best marriage suffers from sin and such.

Its the same as how we will not need the U.S. Constitution or the 10 commandments on the new earth, because we will know what is right and wrong, who we are in love with, and who we arent, and we our will will be to do what is right and be only with that lover cretaed for us by God, just as Adam and Eve were made perfectly for each other, just as the angels go by their will and do not need the laws of men to serve God.

This is so clear to me, but others dont seem to see it and get tripped up on misinterpreting the one verse where Jesus says we wont marry or be given in marriage, they fale to see what is actually being said. Your thoughts please?

All I know is, i better stop having free will after I die. I for one actually WANT to rest for eternity.

i may be wrong about how you mean it, but i know for me that my mind is a mess and i hate how it works and how sin is all around in this world and it makes it difficult to do things and i wish i could rest and such, so perhaps you refer to that, but in Heaven all sin will be gone and such, we will be at rest in our minds being able to do and think of only what is good. Also you will rest, but i imagine you will enjoy being active there as well, but im pretty sure your not going to HAVE to do anything, but i do think you will want to. Also i do not think free will gets taken away, as it is part of who and what we are, so i think it stays, but sin is removed, and i think we will have no desire to sin so we will do what is good.

i've always wondered about this and have never gotten clarification: is there going to be a heaven for elites and a perfect earth for everyone else?

JBirdAngel,

i only skimmed your stuff, but sounds cool. so you think that we would maintain our marriage bonds in heaven in the perfect form (spiritual marriage bond)? makes sense. would be awesome.

Adam and Eve did not marry and were not given in marriage, but by definition of their love for each other they had a relationship that we here on this world refer to as marriage, which was being one flesh.

The following scriptures implies that God gave Eve to Adam as his wife.

Gen 2:22-25 And Jehovah God made the rib (which He had taken from the man) into a woman. And He brought her to the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called Woman because she was taken out of man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife; and they were not ashamed.

By rest i didn't mean eternal sleep. Just rest from all the crap in the world(IE sin).

Ok im going to reply but not in the right order, sorry!

Deborah, I am very familiar with that verse, what Adam said ended when He said that she shall be called woman. The next part is the continued writing of Moses, saying that Therefore, or in other words, based on this relationship that Adam and Eve have, as well as the basic fact that man and woman are created to be one, we have marriage, marriage is our understanding in this fallen world of the proper one flesh relationship, so our undrstanding is that they were married. But they never had a wedding, they did not marry, and they were not given in marriage, they were "married" or man and wife rather by the definition of their existence, the fact that they were/are in love and one flesh. That says taht they were man and woman, and that we get married, it says what we do, and since we understand their relationship as one of marriage they are man and wife, now they could be married or they could not be, the point is that they didnt marry and were not given in marriage.

Marriage is a law and there is no law in Heaven, we will not have the US Constitution, we not have the 10 commandments, we will have God's will, and our will, and they will be the same, we will know right from wrong, and wish to do only good, and we will not have sin to cloud us from love, we will love fully our family our friends, and that one person God created for us to be one flesh/in love with forever more.


colors as far as the Heaven for elite and the new earth for everyone, well i am not really familiar with who or what the elite is, but i do not believe that Heaven will be place we actually are, the new earth and new heaven will be Heaven because it will be a place of being in God's presence, Heaven tends to refer to two things, the state between death and the new earth and new heaven, and more commonly to the new earth and new heaven. I do not believe that there will be Heaven for the elite, as we are forgiven all our sins i believe that we will all live on the new earth and par take of its joys.

Also i am saying that i believe there to be an in love/one flesh relationship between one man and one woman in Heaven. I dont believe that our marriage bonds of this world will continue, but our love, not every people who have ever married have been in love, especially back in the Biblical days, women were treated as property, and there were arranged marriages, which still exist today, marriage wasnt always done out of being in love and one flesh, because i believe that one flesh refers to being in love, when sex is talked abou tin the Bible it says that they knew each other, Adam knew Eve, Cain knew his wife, and that refers to sex, being one flesh is being one under God and in love with each other, not being seperate units but one together.

I believe in true love, evidence of which i believe is shown in the Garden as well, God specifically created Adam and Eve for each other, and they were perfectly made for each other and in love with each other, I believe that as God loves all His children, that He gives us all the same gifts, so i believe that there is someone for each of us to be perfectly one with and in love with, I believe that we can and should love everyone, and taht we can love everyone equally, but that we are only ever TRUELY IN love with one person, and one flesh with them. Just as we search for God we search for this person, but we can somtimes get confused here, and so we can find osmeone that we love and think we are in love with them, and we are eager to put that in love label on there because we are searching for it so much. Now the people who love each other will have a truely great relationship in Heaven, but they will not be one flesh and in love in Heaven, as there is one person meant for us.

The problem, of course as the only true problem, is sin, sin clouds and corrupts everything, it causes death and illness, it can prevent us from finding or being with that person for our whole lives. If your marriage is of true in love, then yes it will continue in Heaven, but if you are not married to that special person that you are meant to be with, then you will remain truely great friends with them, but you will both be incredibly happy when you both are with your soulmates and can spend eternity with them.

I too cannot wait to get away from all of this sin... we will still have free will though, it is a part of us, we are were and always will be humans, it is not our free will that is why we sin, it was temptation and a stupid choice, we know better now, and there will be no temptation in Heaven.

I think gods idea of marriage, is not the same as ours i mearly meant it looks like the Lord gave eve to adam in marriage, we are the ones who made it a ceremony.

As for our daily struggle with sin,
I think Dolly Parton sums it up best with these words.

Halos and horns, sinners and saints.
Hearts that are torn between what's wrong and ain't.
Just because it feels right does not make it so,
So we struggle through life in horns and halos.

Tempted and tried with each step we take.
We stumble and slide and make our mistakes.
Ask God to forgive us for all of our sins,
Then we take off our horns and wear halos again.

Halos and horns, sinners and saints.
Hearts that are torn between what's wrong and ain't.
Just because it feels right does not make it so,
So we struggle through life in horns and halos.

Halos and horns, sinners and saints,
We're praised or we're scorned, we either run or we faint.
Oh, but life is a challenge from the day that we're born.
Just tryin' to balance halos and horns.
It's heaven or hell, halos or horns.

Halos and horns, sinners and saints,
Hearts that are torn between what's wrong and ain't.
But just because it feels right, well, that don't make it so.
So we struggle through life in horns or halos.
It's either horns or halos.

Halos and Horns: Dolly Parton.

Deborah thanks for your post, and i appreciate the song, it helps me to not feel so bad about it, i mean to know that its normal, but i still worry that my asking for forgiveness isnt enough or something i dont know...

Also im not exactly sure why you have a frowning face when you say Gods idea of marriage is different then ours i think that its a good thing and helps show that it is real and will be in Heaven. Gods idea isnt teh same as marriage, our idea of marriage has us using laws and has us marrying and being given in marriage, back in those days more so then now it involved arranged marriages, women being treated as property, other horrible things.

Because Gods idea of marriage is different then ours is great, we will not marry or be given in marriage in Heaven because God will put us rightly with who we belong with and we will be one flesh with that person forever, no need to marry or be given in marriage, because Gods idea is the Truth and is Right, and is Good, God says He is good and that the Garden of Eden was good and so on, I think He is being modest, God is GREAT, to think that He gives us each one person to be in love with, that we can spend eternity in paradise with that person worshiping God being with our family and friends, free from the horns and temptations, i cant wait, i just hope i can make it there!

Also i wanted to thank everyone for the peaceful atmosphere and posts, i have been posting on another forum that isnt like this at all, and when i saw Deborah had a reply i expected it to be more of an attack, because that is what im used to from that forum, so im glad to find a place that really is nice where Christians can talk and share ideas and the love of God, thank you!

I frown because it's not nice or comfortable when one doesn't know or more correctly understand, what it is that God intentions are. it is a worry hoping that we have it right. Only way to combat this is to keep reading and studying the word of god I think.
The bible gives the impression that it is good to realize that we may not have been good enough to enter heaven, my guess is because we have taken the message into our heart, we therefore strive to make sure that what we do is acceptable in the eyes of God. It means that after we are baptised and accepted Jesus died for our sins, we should not just sit back and think I'm alright Jack, it is still important that we strive to please God.

All we can all do is our very best to live our lives to please god, and keep studying his word to insure that we are armed with all the information that God intended to give his Children. We need to continue to study his word so that we may come to an understanding of what his word says, we take the time to explore this for ourselves and not take what others have written in books to be our understanding, we must strive to come to our own understanding to please God. if we make this effort then this pleases God.

JBirdAngel I too was use to attacks on other message boards, that is why the community of this message board is such a pleasure to be part of.
I hope you too choose to stay as I did

I understand your frown very much now, i too very very much agree that it is hard to not know Gods intentions and how things will be in Heaven, and i also agree that we need to read for ourselves and so on, I mean the majority do not believe in having a oneflesh/in love relationship in Heaven, but I believe if you take the Bible at a whole, and take it as what it says then it shows that there will be one, that is the way God created humans to be.

Also just with so many denominations and such clearly people take things differently and we must read and find out what the Spirit tells us that it means i think.

Also the sad part is that no matter what we do or how much we strive to be acceptable, we never are and never will be and never can be, the good part is that that is why Jesus came.

The Bible seems rather unclear as to exactly what is needed for salvation. Some places it seems to say just believing, some places it seems to say you need to do the commandments, also there is the theif on the cross who just asked to be remembered who got saved.

I think we do need to try to keep the commandments, also i dont think this is that hard, i think as we come to know God more we realize that the commandments dont really limit us, but set us free in a way, i mean yes they can be limiting, but i find that the way i want to be and want things to be is exactly how the commandments have them really, the commandments are commandments, but really are given i think to be a guide to say this is how you can have a happy life, as that is how we were created to live.

People get confused, but i would so much rather have that one special relationship with my love then to be with tons of different people, and so on.

Also i dont know if the attacks are not good, it was a christian forum as well, so i didnt really expect to be attacked, alot of people are leaving because of it it seems. Ive only been there a couple days, but am not really posting anymore and only check back now and then just to see more attacks really.

I dont think that you fully state your opinion though on this post as to what you personally believe. Or atleast i dont understand exactly what you are saying.

There are many places in the Bible where one verse can be seen as the opposite of many others, i think with marriage it is an example of this.

If you read Genesis it says Therefore a man will leave his father to be with his wife. Therefore shows that it wasnt what Adam and Eve did, also i mean just think about it Adam didnt leave his father and such, those verses or that verse doesnt apply to Adam and Eve, it is saying God made man and woman, Adam and Eve to be one. Now i found a worry spot because the part about becoming oneflesh happens after the Therefore, but i mean with the Therefore we can see that man and woman, Adam and Eve were meant to be one flesh, obviously it wasnt a surprise to God that Adam and Eve were in love and lived their lives as oneflesh.

I do not read Genesis as saying at all that Adam and Eve got married or were given in marriage, i do not see marriage as existing in the Garden, except that Adam and Eve had the relationshp that marriage is modeled after and tries to be like. Also we have to realize that this is written by Moses, Moses says that our relationship of marriage is based on what God did with Adam and Eve, Moses and the rest of us then understand that relatioship as marriage, so Eve is referred to as Adam's wife, because that is what we understand, God and Jesus clealry do not reveal to us things we cant understand, which is why so much of Heaven is unknown, but I believe that Jesus did say the truth would be known to us through the Spirit, i think that as time goes on we can understand better and better the true meaning.

Back in those days women were mostly treated as property, hopefully that doesnt happen as much now, so we can get a better understanding that women are equals, that it was the times and cultures that had women as property, not the way of God. People had a hard enough time accepting what Jesus said, clearly as many did not, so for Him to go in there and just say everything they knew was wrong wasnt going to work, like i believe He said He had to speak in parables and the Spirit would guide us to the truth.

Perhaps we are coming to a point where the Spirit is guiding us to a better understanding of Heaven and what the relationship will be like there between two people truely in love.

Till death do us part is not in the Bible anywhere, it is not at all spoken of by God or Jesus. There is in Romans somewhere a part that talks about how a woman who is by law married to a man, when that man dies she is free from that law. Now this shows that according to the law of the time that this was so, but the whole point of that area of scripture is that Jesus came to set us free from the law.

To marry or be given in marriage, i think to state it that way stresses the legal part of marriage, the reason this wont be done in Heaven is because, i believe that like the angels, we will need no law in Heaven, i mean think about it when everyone is perfect and only does good, and when each person is in love with only one person and only wants that one person, what use would a law do? If everyone knows that you and your soulmate are together and in love with each other, adn that is the way everyone wants it and everyone is with their own soulmate and wants no other, what is it going to do to have a wedding ceremony, what is it going to do to have a piece of paper written that says by law you are married, absolutley nothing.

I think what Jesus was saying is that it is the law that made the woman be married to the 7 brothers, but we wont marry or be given in marriage, and she will rightly be with the one she is in love with.

That verse truely doesnt comment on marriage or procreation, only the fact of marrying and giving in marriage.

The whole Bible supports marriage, Paul says that it is good to be single, and that is fine, i do believe that He is pointing out that we need to make sure that God is our focus, also wht He says does pertain to this world, in this world our main focus is to worship and get right with God, now this is the main goal of Heaven too, but in Heaven when we are free from sin and perfect, we will so much easier and naturally be able ot put God first in all things, and it is doing this that will allow us to fully enjoy God's creation, to be with our lover, our family and friends, and enjoy the world. This life it is more important to realize that we need to put God first and then other things can follow.

Also i dont understand it but in 1 Corinthians 7 Paul basically refers to marriage as having only to do with sex. He says the only reason to get married is if you cant stop from having sex, but i cant understand this, i think marriage, a proper marriage, while sex is a part of it, really has nothing to do with sex, it has to do with being in love. I would get married even if i never could have sex, sex is nothing without being in love, and being in love is the greatest.

Also i think we need to realize that it is who we are here and now that God loves, love does not wish to change people, God does want us to not sin, but all true Christians also wish to not sin, so God isnt trying to change us, but trying to help lead us to our own true desires.

It is a true desire of my heart to be in love with my love and only her and to be with her forever in that way in Heaven, she also wants to be with me forever.

I believe based on all of creation, all of the Bible, that this is made this way by God. Can anyone really disagree with that? Humans did not create being in love, we cant, and i cant believe that we did or could or would. Humans make things worse not better, Humans degraded it down to just sex, and lost the in love part, but we are coming back to realizing the in love part, i mean throughout all history some people have been in love, but it wasnt the norm, it was more about power and sex, now thats not to say people couldnt grow to love each other, but that also doesnt mean they were IN love with each other.

God is not going to change us, if He was going to why would He suffer on the cross for us? Why would He have this whole world, if He was going to change us, wouldnt He just do it, there would be no point of this world if we were going to be changed, also if He was going to change us, wouldnt that mean He made a mistake in the Garden when He created us? If He has to change us to get us to the proper way of things to live for ever, that means that He didnt make us right in the Garden, i dont believe God makes mistakes.... your thoughts please? Also i hope there are more people who read this and reply, i like this forum so far, but i also want to have alot of input from different people and such ya know? Ok thank you.

The Bible seems rather unclear as to exactly what is needed for salvation. Some places it seems to say just believing, some places it seems to say you need to do the commandments, also there is the theif on the cross who just asked to be remembered who got saved.

I believe that Mar 12:30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength." This is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these. are the two most important and hard lessons that God expects us to learn.
He provides the steps to learn these two most valuable lessons in his word. Jesus said If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15)
Joh 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him.
i think that this all points to salvation and if we love God we strive to please him and keep his commandments. But knowing we may not be good enough to enter heaven keeps us on our toes does it not ? Does this not mean that we should not be slack and take God for granted?

doesn't anyone else have a opinion on this ?


As for the marraige thing, truth is I do not know what to believe. this requires more study on my part. Someone on this forum stated that in gods eyes your with the first person you ever slept with.

I do not agree at all, how could the God of love that all Christians talk about make someone be with a rapist forever in Heaven.

I am not familiar with the Bible saying you are one with the first person you slept with and only that person forever.

Also what does the Bible define as sleeping with in that instance?

I cant believe a God would keep two people in love apart in Heaven just because they didnt have sex, if they didnt have time to get married so didnt have sex before one died, is that reason for them to not be together as lovers in Heaven?