Evidence for God from Science

Former teen idol Kirk Cameron is on a crusade to debunk evolution. He's a born-again Christian and part of a group that wrote a new 50-page intro to Darwin's "On the Origin of Species" to mark its 150th anniversary.

Cameron and his group are handing out thousands of copies of the book on universities across the country. CNN's Carol Costello reports.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/200 ... lution.cnn

This is a pretty clever move by Ray Comfort and the crew at Living Waters. Origin is public domain, so you can write an intro. They are handing out like 150,000 copies on college campuses. Atheist are freaking out over this.

That is futile. Let them rant. you will find the majority of atheist are only interested in name calling and ad hominems. That is why there are so few here. Few want to discuss the actual facts and arguments.

Ray and Kirk have taken an ultra YEC position. I wrote them about this and was given a form letter in return that basically stated God would continue to enlighten us OEC and progressive creationists until we came to a knowledge of the truth. Since their "wham, bam, thank you ma'am" Way of the Master approach is used by many evangelical churches the bias is against us now in those churches if you want to do evangelism with them. I'm already running up against it at Vineyard.

ageofknowledge wrote:Ray and Kirk have taken an ultra YEC position. I wrote them about this and was given a form letter in return that basically stated God would continue to enlighten us OEC and progressive creationists until we came to a knowledge of the truth. Since their "wham, bam, thank you ma'am" Way of the Master approach is used by many evangelical churches the bias is against us now in those churches if you want to do evangelism with them. I'm already running up against it at Vineyard.

This worries me quite a bit. Many find the YEC beliefs to be quite unbelievable. A stumbling block. This is compounded with statements like "until we came to a knowledge of the truth." Kind of arrogant.. I think many just give up on the Bible and leave it to the realm of science fiction. I'm finding this in the ID movement too. Many YEC piggy backing on ID and then driving it to the ground.

Kind of sad...

I attended a veritas meeting on "Why does God allow suffering" at a UCSC last night only to find that the main speaker (a Stanford PHD) was YEC. Of course I didn't want to get into a scuffle with him in front of a live audience, instead I just walked out. Probably not the best thing to do, but on the other part didn't want to make waves. On top of that I didn't want to tick off veritas (of whom I work with). I think it is best however to let people know that there are other alternatives when it comes to creation or Noah's flood.

Oh, man I get lonelier every day..

Ray and Kirk are good friends with AIG. But they should have kept their focus on evanglism instead of veering a hard left into YEC apologetics and treating the subject as if all non-Christians and Christians are in error if they do not ashered to a strict YEC position. They might as well call themselves the Way of the Master YEC institute at this point.

You know, I'm not defending YEC. I just wrote a news article on the giveaway happening, and got atheists on there making comments, lumping all creationists together. According to what I had read, the intro was about Intelligent Design, but I haven't read the book intro myself.

ageofknowledge wrote:Ray and Kirk are good friends with AIG. But they should have kept their focus on evanglism instead of veering a hard left into YEC apologetics and treating the subject as if all non-Christians and Christians are in error if they do not ashered to a strict YEC position. They might as well call themselves the Way of the Master YEC institute at this point.

I use to be YEC and a member of AIG. Over the years and now a OEC, however, I have lost a tremendous amount of respect for them.

Gman wrote:

ageofknowledge wrote:Ray and Kirk are good friends with AIG. But they should have kept their focus on evanglism instead of veering a hard left into YEC apologetics and treating the subject as if all non-Christians and Christians are in error if they do not ashered to a strict YEC position. They might as well call themselves the Way of the Master YEC institute at this point.

I use to be YEC and a member of AIG. Over the years and now a OEC, however, I have lost a tremendous amount of respect for them.

I hear you Gman. My point is that by tying Christianity to a strict YEC position they have greatly diluted their effectiveness to non-Christians and also many Christians. Much better to have acknowledged creationism and keep the focus on evangelism.

But they didn't. Instead they took their strategy of making people realize they are sinners in need of salvation and getting them to make a decision for God and then forcing them to accept a strict YEC position on the back end teaching them Fred Flinstone rode dinasours 6,000 years ago and losing them.

Sorry to burst many of your bubbles. But sounds like you are worried about your 'intellectual' integrity, and that having a YEC position would somehow prevent someone from coming to salvation. I think some of you need to be real careful what you say.

The reality is that those vehemently opposed to the bible think that OECers are a bunch of superstitious nutbags as well. And worse they think that many of you have simply compromised your religion to try and fit the world. The truth is that many non-beleivers see the OECers as the more out there people.

People will not come to God because of sin. Now, I agree we should do all we can to not muddy the water. And I will agree that Ray has probably gone too far in much of his battles with Atheist. But he has done more to bring the attention to the matter of the cross than most other efforts have combined.

jlay wrote:Sorry to burst many of your bubbles. But sounds like you are worried about your 'intellectual' integrity, and that having a YEC position would somehow prevent someone from coming to salvation. I think some of you need to be real careful what you say.

The reality is that those vehemently opposed to the bible think that OECers are a bunch of superstitious nutbags as well. And worse they think that many of you have simply compromised your religion to try and fit the world. The truth is that many non-beleivers see the OECers as the more out there people.

People will not come to God because of sin. Now, I agree we should do all we can to not muddy the water. And I will agree that Ray has probably gone too far in much of his battles with Atheist. But he has done more to bring the attention to the matter of the cross than most other efforts have combined.

A lot of it boils down to translation.. The YEC movement falls apart in the Hebrew translations. Plus things are often taken for granted in the YEC beliefs like lions and other predators turning into meat eaters after the fall. There is no scripture to back this up. It's pure insinuation on part of one's theology.