Discussions on a ranges of philosophical issues including the nature of truth and reality, personal identity, mind-body theories, epistemology, justification of beliefs, argumentation and logic, philosophy of religion, free will and determinism, etc.
This is a picture of Earth. Yes. If you look very carefully and closely, you'd see it. Just below the center line, on the right side, bathed in sunbeam. Yes, it's that speck of dust.
“We succeeded in taking that picture [from deep space], and, if you look at it, you see a dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity — in all this vastness — there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.”
Yeah, it's really amazing. Compared to the universe, our planet seems like nothing, and we're less than nothing. But we're not . . . Sagan sure is sentimental in his writing. Why cherish it and why act so kindly to each other, just because we're alone (according to Sagan) and puny? Those things don't go together to me, certainly not necessarily.
"I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." C.S. Lewis
cslewislover wrote:Yeah, it's really amazing. Compared to the universe, our planet seems like nothing, and we're less than nothing. But we're not . . . Sagan sure is sentimental in his writing. Why cherish it and why act so kindly to each other, just because we're alone (according to Sagan) and puny? Those things don't go together to me, certainly not necessarily.
Well compared to the universe we're just a speck in a speck in a speck with specks on it. But thats not nothing or less than nothing.
Why cerish our planet because its the only one we can use at the moment? Why act kindly if we have to share this speck? Are you serious?
zoegirl wrote:If it means nothing, then why attribute a special quality to it?
It means absolutely nothing according to you....there is nothing special about it. Meaningless, meaningless....
When did i say it meant nothing? When did I say there is nothing special about it? When did I say anything was without meaning?
You don’t look out there for god, something in the sky, you look in you.
Things are as they are. Looking out into it the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.
Random? No, but ordered doesn't mean designed in my world veiw. Meaningless? We give meaning to the world we live in, meaning is a human perspective, our minds are rigged to seek meaning, reasoning, purpose. This is not to say that the universe is without meaning. It is beyond what I would pretend to comprehend. Accidents? I don't think anything is an accident. Anything that happened happened how it happened and probably couldn't have happened in any other way.
What is 'valid meaning' ? And why should I try to explain anything about how I see the world when you have already decided what i believe. Why should I try to change your mind when you already hate me?
You don’t look out there for god, something in the sky, you look in you.
Things are as they are. Looking out into it the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.
*you* give meaning to it, doesn't mean it *has* meaning.
Of course it's random....purely chance...you are simply the combined forces of atoms.
You may think it has meaning, you may want to give it meaning, but it has no inherent meaning.
You have essentially declared that the only meaning is what has been imparted by each of us, meaning that each view is equal and therefore no meaning is of any value whatsoever.
I don't hate you, why would you even think that?!?
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"
We being made of atoms makes us random how?
Atoms are merely energy. I believe there is only one thing, one energy force, it is sort of an organism. This is why i think the universe exists, its a part of this super life form. This is why I think the universe is filled with life forms, in my view everything on a small scale is very basic life.
I see where you're coming from with the meaning thing. It certainly does look like nothing has inherent meaning.
Just because we're all equally right and wrong doesn't mean our meaning has no value. Do you really feel everything needs god for meaning and purpose?
I don't think you hate me, I think you think I'm something I'm not.
You don’t look out there for god, something in the sky, you look in you.
Things are as they are. Looking out into it the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.
If nothing is permanent, then it's sort-of meaningless. If this is the only life we have, we can just do anything we want, since there's no remembrance or meaning to anything. Really, just go party and have the best possible time. There is no meaning without a future and a consciousness.
"I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." C.S. Lewis
our minds are rigged to seek meaning, reasoning, purpose.
I would say programmed. And yes we have a programmer.
Atoms are merely energy. I believe there is only one thing, one energy force, it is sort of an organism. This is why i think the universe exists, its a part of this super life form. This is why I think the universe is filled with life forms, in my view everything on a small scale is very basic life.
You realize that is a religious philosophy?
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord
"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
cslewislover wrote:Yeah, it's really amazing. Compared to the universe, our planet seems like nothing, and we're less than nothing. But we're not . . . Sagan sure is sentimental in his writing. Why cherish it and why act so kindly to each other, just because we're alone (according to Sagan) and puny? Those things don't go together to me, certainly not necessarily.
Well compared to the universe we're just a speck in a speck in a speck with specks on it. But thats not nothing or less than nothing.
Why cerish our planet because its the only one we can use at the moment? Why act kindly if we have to share this speck? Are you serious?
Lol, I am totally serious. I'm asking you, why do you attribute meaning to our actions when there is no basis for it (according to you)? We are animals, so why don't we just act like it (well, a whole lot of us do, LOL, and there are animals that act better than some humans)? Why do we consciously seek higher things? Why not blow up the planet now and get rid of all the pain and suffering? Your ideas about how we should behave, being all alone on this planet, seem to have no basis in anything. When there is no basis for behavior, one behavior is just as "good" as another. The fact that I'm arguing for a basis in meaning means something, that I want some logic out of this. I know how I feel and think about it, I know where my meaning comes from and where it's going, for the most part, but I don't see that you do. You seem like you have youthful exuberance and that's where you're at, basically. You could explain more so we understand, since you've complained that we don't understand you.
"I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." C.S. Lewis
cslewislover wrote:If nothing is permanent, then it's sort-of meaningless. If this is the only life we have, we can just do anything we want, since there's no remembrance or meaning to anything. Really, just go party and have the best possible time. There is no meaning without a future and a consciousness.
How depressing that you would waste your life away if you thought you only had 60years to live, and nothing after that.
BECAUSE I don't believe in an eternal life I feel life has much much more meaning. How precious is a moment if you have an infinity of moments to experience forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever. Etc.
"there is no meaning without a future" Maybe not for you, but when we found out my mother was terminal did we stop talking to her, because whats the point right, there is no future with her?
You don’t look out there for god, something in the sky, you look in you.
Things are as they are. Looking out into it the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.
Also I believe everything is permanent, I don't believe the multiverse system had a begining, all the energy and matter(which is made of energy) has been around forever, and will never die, but simply change constantly.
You don’t look out there for god, something in the sky, you look in you.
Things are as they are. Looking out into it the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.
