Evidence for God from Science

According to the bible god makes the non-believers disblieve:

John 12:40
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

If I am taking these out of context please help me out and give my some context or set me straight.

qqMOARpewpew wrote:According to the bible god makes the non-believers disblieve:

John 12:40
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

If I am taking these out of context please help me out and give my some context or set me straight.

First - Regarding John 12:40

John 6:64 - God can deal with anyone as he sees, or should I say, knows, as he so ever wills for whatever purposes he chooses. Note also Job 34:21, 23.

Look at Isaiah 6:9, 10 as well as Matthew 13:13, 14, 15

Then peak at John 12:41 which is in direct context of the text posed.

What do you see (discover) from these?

Second - Regarding 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12:

Reference is found in the context it is used

2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10, 12

Now look at Isaiah 66:4 and go back to John 6:64 and Job 34:23

Amazing that the Lord took the time to bother to call at all: He remains absolutely Just and Right in all His ways.
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qqMOARpewpew wrote:According to the bible god makes the non-believers disblieve:

Is this a question or a statement?

qqMOARpewpew wrote:John 12:40
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

If I am taking these out of context please help me out and give my some context or set me straight.

I thought this gave a good answer... Basically hard hearts ultimately are our responsibility, not God's. God simply strengthened their hearts to do what they were desiring to do. And they participated in their own hardening.

http://truthsaves.org/doctrine/harden_hearts.shtml

I have the capability to harden someone's heart too. I could make someone angry by my own gestures or call them a name. We all do that in that respect.

I think the main thing that makes unbelievers not believe is that what we believe
about the Bible has to be taken by faith. God is not physical to us. We don't see him
with our eyes or hear him with our ears. We can not sence him with any of the 5
senses.
A lot of what used to be seen as God intervening in everyday life is now explained by
science. Many peoples brains do not allow them to have faith in things that are not logical,
and thus they will never believe.

rare96ws6 wrote:I think the main thing that makes unbelievers not believe is that what we believe
about the Bible has to be taken by faith. God is not physical to us. We don't see him
with our eyes or hear him with our ears. We can not sence him with any of the 5
senses.
A lot of what used to be seen as God intervening in everyday life is now explained by
science. Many peoples brains do not allow them to have faith in things that are not logical,
and thus they will never believe.

Faith is Logical...
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B. W. wrote:

rare96ws6 wrote:I think the main thing that makes unbelievers not believe is that what we believe
about the Bible has to be taken by faith. God is not physical to us. We don't see him
with our eyes or hear him with our ears. We can not sence him with any of the 5
senses.
A lot of what used to be seen as God intervening in everyday life is now explained by
science. Many peoples brains do not allow them to have faith in things that are not logical,
and thus they will never believe.

Faith is Logical...
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Not many truer words were ever spoken.

rare96ws6 wrote:I think the main thing that makes unbelievers not believe is that what we believe
about the Bible has to be taken by faith. God is not physical to us. We don't see him
with our eyes or hear him with our ears. We can not sence him with any of the 5
senses.
A lot of what used to be seen as God intervening in everyday life is now explained by
science. Many peoples brains do not allow them to have faith in things that are not logical,
and thus they will never believe.

Sorry, but that is a straw man argument. If one had to disbelieve everything that cannot be observed by the senses, then one would be skeptical of everything, including science.

August wrote:

rare96ws6 wrote:I think the main thing that makes unbelievers not believe is that what we believe
about the Bible has to be taken by faith. God is not physical to us. We don't see him
with our eyes or hear him with our ears. We can not sence him with any of the 5
senses.
A lot of what used to be seen as God intervening in everyday life is now explained by
science. Many peoples brains do not allow them to have faith in things that are not logical,
and thus they will never believe.

Sorry, but that is a straw man argument. If one had to disbelieve everything that cannot be observed by the senses, then one would be skeptical of everything, including science.

Would this imply that Kant was in reality a Straw Man?
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B. W. wrote:

August wrote:

rare96ws6 wrote:I think the main thing that makes unbelievers not believe is that what we believe
about the Bible has to be taken by faith. God is not physical to us. We don't see him
with our eyes or hear him with our ears. We can not sence him with any of the 5
senses.
A lot of what used to be seen as God intervening in everyday life is now explained by
science. Many peoples brains do not allow them to have faith in things that are not logical,
and thus they will never believe.

Sorry, but that is a straw man argument. If one had to disbelieve everything that cannot be observed by the senses, then one would be skeptical of everything, including science.

Would this imply that Kant was in reality a Straw Man?
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If he existed, yes.

Byblos wrote:

B. W. wrote:

rare96ws6 wrote:I think the main thing that makes unbelievers not believe is that what we believe
about the Bible has to be taken by faith. God is not physical to us. We don't see him
with our eyes or hear him with our ears. We can not sence him with any of the 5
senses.
A lot of what used to be seen as God intervening in everyday life is now explained by
science. Many peoples brains do not allow them to have faith in things that are not logical,
and thus they will never believe.

Faith is Logical...
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-
-

Not many truer words were ever spoken.

How is faith logical? With the lack of any evidence, how is it logicasl to believe in something?

B. W. wrote:

August wrote:

rare96ws6 wrote:I think the main thing that makes unbelievers not believe is that what we believe
about the Bible has to be taken by faith. God is not physical to us. We don't see him
with our eyes or hear him with our ears. We can not sence him with any of the 5
senses.
A lot of what used to be seen as God intervening in everyday life is now explained by
science. Many peoples brains do not allow them to have faith in things that are not logical,
and thus they will never believe.

Sorry, but that is a straw man argument. If one had to disbelieve everything that cannot be observed by the senses, then one would be skeptical of everything, including science.

Would this imply that Kant was in reality a Straw Man?

What part of my comment are you refering to as a strawman arguement? Sceptical of science? Of course. This is how science is set up. A hypothesis is proposed and then through experimentation is is broken down or proved. Also, I take it you meant a person would be skeptical of some parts of science, since things like gravity can be observed.

Our sences do not detect God. They are great at detecting the physical world around us, but not outher dimensional or invisible attrubutes of beings that have no physical reality. If God is intervening in our everyday lives, then it is by the natural laws he put into place, but by some mysticism.

What part of my comment are you refering to as a strawman arguement?

The whole thing. Believing what science says takes just as much faith in things that cannot be detected with the senses. I know how the scientific method works, by the way.

How do you get to know what the "scientific method" means?

Also, I take it you meant a person would be skeptical of some parts of science, since things like gravity can be observed.

Oh, really? Please show me gravity. What does it look like? How much does it weigh? What color is it? What does it smell or sound like?

rare96ws6 wrote:How is faith logical? With the lack of any evidence, how is it logicasl to believe in something?

Try to think of how many things you believe on faith then imagine your life if you didn't.

August wrote:

What part of my comment are you refering to as a strawman arguement?

The whole thing. Believing what science says takes just as much faith in things that cannot be detected with the senses. I know how the scientific method works, by the way.

How do you get to know what the "scientific method" means?

Also, I take it you meant a person would be skeptical of some parts of science, since things like gravity can be observed.

Oh, really? Please show me gravity. What does it look like? How much does it weigh? What color is it? What does it smell or sound like?

I mentioned gravity can be observed. What I meant is that if I hold a rock in my hand and then open up my hand, the rock will fall to the earth. This happens every time I have ever picked up a rock and opened my hand. I have made an observation. I have observed gravity.
I don't see anything in my post that doubts you know how the scientific method works, so I don't understand the use of your statement about it. You are correct that it does take faith to believe that your hypothesis is true or not. Experimentation is done to see if it is.

Byblos wrote:

rare96ws6 wrote:How is faith logical? With the lack of any evidence, how is it logical to believe in something?

Try to think of how many things you believe on faith then imagine your life if you didn't.

I mentioned faith as being illogical when there is no evidence, not faith in things we can know. I have faith that there
is a brain in side of my head. if I get an MRI done, I can see that brain. I have faith that God exists, but I can not in
any way see evidence of him.