Evidence for God from Science

I like to look for ghosts (evp's and the like), aka ghost hunting.

From a religious view, not just Christian, ghosts don't always make much sense (unless you are into Shintoism and such).

Jesus, one could argue, in a round about way, believed (or acknowledged the belief in) ghosts (He told his followers to touch him and see that he was real and not a spirit/ghost after he rose from the grave - he did not say 'spirits couldn't be here because they don't exist or are in heaven/etc').

There is much we do not understand about the universe, heaven, after life, and so on - except in the most simple terms handed down through the bible (and, as I have said elsewhere, God sometimes does not get into extensive details on things as the writers back then could not have fully understood).

I have caught voices on tape, and for the first time in my life can say I saw a ghost (was not even looking) .

My problem with some arguments I have heard (from both religious sides and skeptical science side ala James Randi and others) is that it assumes we either know all about God and how the spirit world works or we understand all about the universe and such things cannot exist.

There are some theological issues from writers over the centuries that deal with this and related issues (which does not tie ghosts back to demons) but I won't go into those right now as I would like to see your take and perhaps I can become a little more enlightened.

I ain't afraid of no ghosts.

I am thinking they could be good power supplies for our cars and homes

Boo...

Look Chance no offense, seriously, but stop now!!!!!!!!!!! Do not proceed any farther in this "ghost hunting" thing. Take it from some one who knows, this always will lead you to encounter things you DO NOTwant to encounter. There are things, things you don't want to know, things you don't want to see.... once you see them you can never forget..... believe me, I have been there, I have seen things.... things I would rather not talk about. Look once you go too far you can never go back. Give it up now and forget you ever did it and forget that you were ever involved in it!!! That is all I have to say, just let it go and don't look back, don't think that I was spooked by something small... or that I got scared after one thing, oh no, it was much worse than what words can describe. I will not answer any questions on this and I will not go into more detail, period, just get away from it and do it now! Don't hesitate, don't look for another opinion just get out while you can. True many people go unexposed as it is said, but you may not be one of those people... you may be one of the few who, well look you don't DON'T want to know.
Nathaniel

No offense, but what is there to fear?

The universe, the one our God created, is bigger than just us.

Ghosts may be nothing more than a remnant of impressions left behind and have a scientific explanation - or they could be more than that.

Why not examine them, or the phenomenon, and try to better understand it all?

Gabrielman wrote:Look Chance no offense, seriously, but stop now!!!!!!!!!!! Do not proceed any farther in this "ghost hunting" thing. Take it from some one who knows, this always will lead you to encounter things you DO NOTwant to encounter. There are things, things you don't want to know, things you don't want to see.... once you see them you can never forget..... believe me, I have been there, I have seen things.... things I would rather not talk about. Look once you go too far you can never go back. Give it up now and forget you ever did it and forget that you were ever involved in it!!! That is all I have to say, just let it go and don't look back, don't think that I was spooked by something small... or that I got scared after one thing, oh no, it was much worse than what words can describe. I will not answer any questions on this and I will not go into more detail, period, just get away from it and do it now! Don't hesitate, don't look for another opinion just get out while you can. True many people go unexposed as it is said, but you may not be one of those people... you may be one of the few who, well look you don't DON'T want to know.
Nathaniel

Please understand why I'm a little skeptical when you urge him to not delve any further into that world, but then claim that you can't give a single detail. I honestly mean no offense, but many people that have had similar experiences are able to talk about them.

chance wrote:No offense, but what is there to fear?

The universe, the one our God created, is bigger than just us.

Ghosts may be nothing more than a remnant of impressions left behind and have a scientific explanation - or they could be more than that.

Why not examine them, or the phenomenon, and try to better understand it all?

Because in most cases spirits or of evil origin, no matter how nice they might seem. And this is coming from a Catholic, you know what I'm saying? There is a reason God forbade necromancy.

BOBtheMASTER wrote: Please understand why I'm a little skeptical when you urge him to not delve any further into that world, but then claim that you can't give a single detail. I honestly mean no offense, but many people that have had similar experiences are able to talk about them.

The people who have seen the things I have seen won't talk about it cause they don't want to think about it, period, that's it. There are others that have seen things and won't talk about them, I am not the only one, do some research, you will find out that there are quite a few people like that.

Byblos wrote: Because in most cases spirits or of evil origin, no matter how nice they might seem. And this is coming from a Catholic, you know what I'm saying? There is a reason God forbade necromancy.

Correct, very correct, there is a reason why He said to not do these things.

Chance, look if you don't want to believe me then that is fine, but don't say you weren't warned, there are things you don't want to see and things you don't want to know. You might think that it is just a few little harmless ghosts but there is much more that I don't wish to remember that you will encounter... Like I said I don't want to talk about what I have seen and trust me when I say you don't want to know it.
Peace

Byblos Wrote: Because in most cases spirits or of evil origin, no matter how nice they might seem. And this is coming from a Catholic, you know what I'm saying? There is a reason God forbade necromancy.

There is a difference between necromancy and ghost hunting. In necromancy you are looking to the dead to provide prophecy, gain wisdom, etc and usually involves a more ritualistic nature. It also involves a more direct method of attempting to control a spirit.

Attempting to capture data about the spirit world via more scientific methods to gain a better understanding of what exists beyond this plane.

It is kind of like the difference between a human to Jupiter (very dangerous) versus sending a probe to analyze data.

The spirit world, one would guess, is much larger than the physical.

There is a good exposition on ghosts and the bible here:
http://theparanormalpastor.blogspot.com ... hosts.html

More perhaps later Thanks to all so far for your thoughtful input. I like this board!

Ah, pareidolia is a wonderful thing.

I think the ghost and UFO hunting communities provide a rich amount of information about the human psyche, more so than they do about the realms of ghosts and aliens.

Ah, pareidolia is a wonderful thing

I don't see how that is relevant to this discussion. There is difference between reading something into a situation and hearing something direct.

If you get an evp that others also hear how is that pareidolia? Perhaps that is a catchphrase some use to ignore data/information they don't like or makes them feel uncomfortable.

While some in the ufo/ghost hunting arenas may make errors and such in their analysis that does not mean all do - yet some will use such anecdotal issues to, in a strange twist of fate, see things that are not their to buttress their own biases and make them feel more secure.

The search for truth is a two way street, some skeptics are worse than 'believers' in that regards - because they have more to lose.

chance wrote:

Ah, pareidolia is a wonderful thing

I don't see how that is relevant to this discussion. There is difference between reading something into a situation and hearing something direct.

If you get an evp that others also hear how is that pareidolia?

Lots of people can see the face on Mars, or the man in the moon.
I've yet to hear an EVP that wasn't fuzzy and indistinct - and the supposed words in the vast majority of them don't become apparent until someone else tells you what they hear.

Here is an excerpt from an RBC booklet, found here Do You Believe in Magic?. If you can't read it well or want to read more, go there. Unfortunately, the author does not give a reference for this. If anyone is interested, I can write to them and find out.

For those who nay-say the paranormal without ever looking into it, experimenting with magic, occult, or whatever else, I would say to find someone who claims to have knowledge or experience in seeing/feeling spirits. Then I would taunt the spirits to attack you as I hear they will do so if you jeer or disrespect them.

Infact, I might try this myself to see if there is real proof of the supernatural.