Evidence for God from Science

Posted: **Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:27 pm**

I'm creating a post for some historical evidence for Christ (for his literal existence and the claims of the Bible). I'm intentionally putting this in the science section because I think we are going to hit on some science here and there. Also please note, some of this material will be taken from other sections of this forum.

To start with Christ's history, I think it is important to focus on sources outside of the Bible for authenticity.. Of course we could go into the Bible and find a lot of evidence, i.e. Christ showing himself to over 500 witnesses (1 Corinthians 15: 5-8), or firstly women (Luke 24:10, a weak source in those days) after the resurrection, but others are from the following sources...

1. Cornelius Tacitus (AD 55-120). A Roman historian that recorded references to Christ. The most important one is that found in the Annals, which also mentions Pontius Pilate as Christ's persecutor.

2. Josephus Flavius (37-100 AD). A Jewish-Roman historian who wrote various passages about Christ. His supposed sorcery, his death and resurrection, and his brother James and John the Baptist.

3. Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas (AD 117-138). Another Roman historian that recorded references to Christ. Recorded the riots which broke between the Jews and Romans in the year AD 49 during the investigation of Christ claims.

4. Thallus (AD 52). Historian that references a darkness and earthquake that occurred during Christ's crucifixion, referenced by Julius Africanus.

5. Pliny the Younger (AD 61—112). Roman author that mentions the spread of early Christianity to pagan temples and includes early Christian practices.

6. Emperor Trajan (AD 53-117). Gave some of the first Roman views about early Christianity and corrective actions towards Christians.

7. Emperor Hadrian (AD 117-138). Early judgments towards Christians.

8. The Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a (AD 70-200). Explicitly states that Jesus was killed on the eve of the Jewish Passover. 40 days prior he was going to be stoned for sorcery but was later hung (presumably on the cross).

9. Toledoth Jesu (2nd Century?). Anti-Christian document that records what happened to Christ's body after his death.

10. Lucian (2 Century). Greek satirist who recorded the early practices and facts of the Christians.

11. Mara Bar-Serapion (1st and 3rd Century). Ancient manuscript that records Christ as a wise “king” of the Jews.

12. Gnostic sources:
a. The Gospel of Truth (AD 135-160)
b. The Apocryphon of John (AD 120-130)
c. The Gospel of Thomas (AD 140-200)
d. The Treatise On Resurrection (2nd Century)
e. The Gospel of the Nazaraeans (AD 150?)
f. The Gospel of Judas (180 AD)
g. The Gospel of Mary (120—180 AD)

13. Lost Works:
a. Acts of Pontius Pilate (AD 150).
b. Phlegon (AD 80).

Early Christian Writings a good source for early Christian works. Please note that the Early Church Fathers between 100 and 200 AD referenced the four Gospels and other earlier Christian books in their books. Therefore the Gospels must have been written before their claims..

If anyone wants to add to the list, please post it, I know there is much more..

Posted: **Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:49 pm**

I don't understand what you're trying to do, here. What do you mean, "evidence for Christ"? Are you talking about the secular issue of the historicity of Jesus? Or are you taking a supernaturalist approach, and giving evidence that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah promised by God? Or something else?

Posted: **Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:00 pm**

hatsoff wrote:I don't understand what you're trying to do, here. What do you mean, "evidence for Christ"? Are you talking about the secular issue of the historicity of Jesus? Or are you taking a supernaturalist approach, and giving evidence that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah promised by God? Or something else?

All of the above... But mainly the approach as it relates to Christ and the Biblical claims surrounding Him contrasted with what we know about him from the secular and Biblical worlds or even science.

Also, is the Josephus' account of Jesus a forgery? This YouTube video clearly refutes that.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6cQgqbXYN0

Christ's name is found in ALL of the Josephus writings.. All of them. This is a FACT.

Posted: **Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:07 pm**

There are different ways we can tackle this.. As an example, take a Biblical claim and see if it is backed up by other historians, science, or other sources. As an example, Matthew 27:45, Mark 15:33, Luke 23:44... Also addressed in Acts 2:20 (by Peter as a prophecy for Christ), Joel 2:31 and Revelation 6:12.

Apparently there were two events at the death of Christ.

1. A darkness.
2. A red blood moon.

The darkness can easily be explained by a surging of dark clouds or some other miraculous event, but it was most likely clouds that would have appeared about 3:00 pm in the afternoon. These clouds, however, would have to disappear somewhat by nighttime in order to record our next historical event, a red blood moon.

Acts 2:20 ...and the moon to blood (red blood moon), before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day.

It appears that during Christ's crucifixion, there was a red blood moon. So let's see if there was an eclipse or something that happened around that time.. Well, it turns out that there was a lunar eclipse with a red blood moon that happened in Jerusalem around 33 AD. By using the astronomical software called "Starry Night" we can see that on April 3, 33 AD, the moon rises as a full red blood moon about 6:00 pm (on the Jerusalem horizon), then about 9:15 pm it goes back to a full moon (looking east) just as depicted in the Gospels and Acts 2:20.

Red Moon eclipsed

Full Moon

As for the darkness (clouds), apparently it was widespread...

But this is also confirmed by sources outside of the Bible. As an example, Phlegon Trallianus records in his history, Olympiades:

"In the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad [AD 32-33], a failure of the Sun took place greater than any previously known, and night came on at the sixth hour of the day, so that stars actually appeared in the sky; and a great earthquake took place in Bithynia and overthrew the greater part of Niceaea."

Or

Samaritan historian, Thallus, wrote his "Histories." In A.D. 52. Although no copies of him survive but we do have quotes of it from others. Thus Julius Africanus, writing about A.D. 220, refers to the "Histories" and says:

"Thallus calls this darkness an eclipse of the sun in the third book of his Histories, without reason it seems to me.."

Posted: **Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:37 pm**

And here is something even more interesting.. The Jews always schedule the Passover during a full moon (around springtime).

As we can see around 6:00 pm the moon was a red blood moon on the horizon (April 3, 33 AD).

Scripture confirms that Christ's death was on the eve of passover...

John 19:14-18

14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.

Non-Christian sources: The Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a (AD 70-200)

"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu (Christ) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover!"

So basically, what we see here is Christ being killed on the eve of a passover day, with a full red moon (6:08 pm) signifying the death of Christ and the passover lamb, then around 9:15 pm it goes back to a full moon.. And April 3, 33 AD was on a Friday!!!

Imagine how the people reacted when they saw this...

Isn't that interesting? Factual evidence folks...

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:45 pm**

It's interesting that this date April 3, 33 AD falls beautifully with the date that Pontius Pilate was a procurator over Judea in AD 26—36. Also the fact that Jesus was 30 years old when he began is ministry Luke 3:23.

In fact all four gospels mention Pontius Pilate numerous times. But was Pontius Pilate a real historic figure? In the past it was thought that the mention of Pontius Pilate was nothing more than a Christian plot to gain recognition for Christ's death. However, that whole idea went out the window in 1961.

"The first physical evidence relating to Pilate was discovered in 1961, when a block of limestone was found in the Roman theatre at Caesarea Maritima, the capital of the province of Iudaea, bearing a damaged dedication by Pilate of a Tiberieum.[14] This dedication states that he was [...]ECTVS IUDA[...] (usually read as praefectus iudaeae), that is, prefect/governor of Iudaea. The early governors of Iudaea were of prefect rank, the later were of procurator rank, beginning with Cuspius Fadus in 44 AD."

Limestone block discovered in 1961 with Pilate's tribute in Latin to Tiberius

Bronze prutah minted by Pontius Pilate.

Bronze coin of Pontius Pilate, Jerusalem mint, 26-36 AD.

Other sources outside the Bible that reveals that Pontius Pilate was a real historic figure...

From Josephus, Wars, Book II, Chapter 9:

"Now Pilate, who was sent as procurator into Judea by Tiberius, sent by night those images of Caesar that are called ensigns into Jerusalem."

From Philo, On The Embassy of Gauis Book XXXVIII 299-305

"According to Philo, Pilate was "inflexible, he was stubborn, of cruel disposition. He executed troublemakers without a trial." He refers to Pilate's "venality, his violence, thefts, assaults, abusive behavior, endless executions, endless savage ferocity."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilate

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:42 pm**

Epitome from Church History of Agapius
(Arabic) At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and he was known to be virtuous. And many from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive. Accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah concerning who the prophets have recounted wonders.

Babylonian Talmud
On the eve of Passover Yeshua was hanged. For forty days before the execution a herald went forth and cried, "He is going to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of Passover. - Sanhedrin 43a

Gaius Suetonius, Lives of the Twelve Caesars
100-125 A.D.

He expelled the Jews from Rome, on account of riots in which they were constantly indulging, at the instigation of Chrestus. - Claudius 25.4

Punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a body of people addicted to a novel and mischievous superstition. - Nero 16.2

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:13 pm**

Julius Africanus, 221 AD, found a reference in the writings of Thallus, who wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean around 52 AD, which dealt with the darkness that covered the land during Jesus's crucifixion:

"Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away the darkness as an eclipse of the sun--unreasonably, as it seems to me." [A solar eclipse could not take place during a full moon, as was the case during Passover season.]

Clement, elder of Rome, letter to the Corinthian church (95 AD):

"The Apostles received the Gospel for us from the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ was sent forth from God. So then Christ is from God, and the Apostles are from Christ. Both therefore came of the will of God in the appointed order. Having therefore received a charge, and having been fully assured through the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ and confirmed in the word of God with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth with the glad tidings that the kingdom of God should come. So preaching everywhere in country and town, they appointed their firstfruits, when they had proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons unto them that should believe."

Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, letter to the Trallians (110-115 AD):

"Jesus Christ who was of the race of David, who was the Son of Mary, who was truly born and ate and drank, was truly persecuted under Pontius Pilate, was truly crucified and died in the sight of those in heaven and on earth and those under the earth; who moreover was truly raised from the dead, His Father having raised Him, who in the like fashion will so raise us also who believe on Him."

Ignatius, letter to the Smyrneans (110-115 AD):

"He is truly of the race of David according to the flesh, but Son of God by the Divine will and power, truly born of a virgin and baptised by John that all righteousness might be fulfilled by Him, truly nailed up in the flesh for our sakes under Pontius Pilate and Herod the tetrarch (of which fruit are we--that is, of his most blessed passion); that He might set up an ensign unto all ages through His resurrection."

"For I know and believe that He was in the flesh even after the resurrection; and when He came to Peter and his company, He said to them, 'Lay hold and handle me, and see that I am not a demon without body.' And straightway they touched him, and they believed, being joined unto His flesh and His blood. Wherefore also they despised death, nay they were found superior to death. And after His resurrection He ate with them and drank with them."

Ignatius, letter to the Magnesians (110-115 AD):

"Be ye fully persuaded concerning the birth and the passion and the resurrection, which took place in the time of the governorship of Pontius Pilate; for these things were truly and certainly done by Jesus Christ our hope."

Quadratus, to Emperor Hadrian (125 AD):

"The deeds of our Saviour were always before you, for they were true miracles; those that were healed, those that were raised from the dead, who were seen, not only when healed and when raised, but were always present. They remained living a long time, not only whilst our Lord was on earth, but likewise when He had left the earth. So that some of them have also lived to our own times."

Justin Martyr, to Emperor Antoninus Pius (150 AD):

After referring to Jesus's birth of a virgin in the town of Bethlehem, and that His physical line of descent came through the tribe of Judah and the family of Jesse, Justin wrote, "Now there is a village in the land of the Jews, thirty-five stadia from Jerusalem, in which Jesus Christ was born, as you can ascertain also from the registers of the taxing made under Cyrenius, your first procurator in Judea."

"Accordingly, after He was crucified, even all His acquaintances forsook Him, having denied Him; and afterwards, when He had risen from the dead and appeared to them, and had taught them to read the prophecies in which all these things were foretold as coming to pass, and when they had seen Him ascending into heaven, and had believed, and had received power sent thence by Him upon them, and went to every race of men, they taught these things, and were called apostles."

Justin Martyr, in Dialogue with Trypho (150 AD):

"For at the time of His birth, Magi who came from Arabia worshipped Him, coming first to Herod, who then was sovereign in your land."

"For when they crucified Him, driving in the nails, they pierced His hands and feet; and those who crucified Him parted His garments among themselves, each casting lots for what he chose to have, and receiving according to the decision of the lot."

"Christ said amongst you that He would give the sign of Jonah, exhorting you to repent of your wicked deeds at least after He rose again from the dead ... yet you not only have not repented, after you learned that He rose from the dead, but, as I said before, you have sent chosen and ordained men throughout all the world to proclaim that 'a godless and lawless heresy had sprung from one Jesus, a Galilean deceiver, whom we crucified, but His disciples stole Him by night from the tomb, where He was laid when unfastened from the cross, and now deceive men by asserting that He has risen from the dead and ascended to heaven.'"

"For indeed the Lord remained upon the tree almost until evening, and they buried Him at eventide; then on the third day He rose again."

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:22 pm**

Nice.... Thank you Danny. I knew there was more.

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:33 pm**

Gman wrote:Nice.... Thank you Danny. I knew there was more.

Astonishingly, some still question the historicity of Jesus...

Posted: **Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:56 pm**

Earthquakes anyone?

In Matthew 27:54 it reports that there was an earthquake around the time of Christ's crucifixion. It appears we have evidence outside of the Bible to confirm this as well.

Phlegon Trallianus records in his history, Olympiades:

"In the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad [AD 32-33], a failure of the Sun took place greater than any previously known, and night came on at the sixth hour of the day, so that stars actually appeared in the sky; and a great earthquake took place in Bithynia (Greece) and overthrew the greater part of Niceaea."

About A.D. 52 the Samaritan historian, Thallus, wrote his "Histories." No copies of him survive but we do have quotes of it from others. Thus Julius Africanus, writing about A.D. 220, refers to the "Histories" and says:

"on the whole world there pressed a fearful darkness, and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. Thallus calls this darkness an eclipse of the sun in the third book of his Histories, without reason it seems to me.."

The Gospel of the Nazaraeans - Variant to Mt 27:51

"And behold, a massive lintel of the temple broke and split apart. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split."

If we look into the Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmuds around that time they report that the chamber of Hewn Stones (near the alter of Burnt Offering in the temple) was destroyed (30 AD) preventing the Sanhedrin from entering it. It is very possible that it was the earthquake at the crucifixion that caused this damage.

And of course.. Not to mention that Jerusalem happens to be very close to some major fault lines. The biggest being in the Dead Sea called the "The Great Rift Valley."

And not to mention that it is due for another one soon..

Source: //www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3980139/

Posted: **Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:19 am**

Hello. Thanks for posting this information, I find it very interesting!

I notice most of the information posted so far pertains to the crucifixion of Christ, but if you don't mind I'd like to ask a couple questions about the birth of Christ that hopefully you can help me with. We know from the Gospels that Jesus was born in Bethlehem because of the census issued by Caesar Augustus and that this census took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria and King Herod was ruler of Israel. However, it seems that any time I see this mentioned in a secular/athiest source, they are quick to point out that Quirinius was not appointed governor of Syria until 10 years after Herod died.

I haven't done a lot of research into this, but I have found one explanation that seems very plausible: the verse should actually be translated governing in Syria, not governor of Syria. I have found that Quirinius did indeed have quite a bit of political power as early as 12 B.C. What do you think of this?

We also know from Matthew 2 that Joseph took his family to Egypt to escape the massacre of male children age 2 and under. As King Herod was known to be a tyrant, I've never heard of anyone having any problem attributing this to him. Now, most sources I've found put King Herod's death in 4 B.C., so this would mean that Jesus was born about a year or two before that. Is this sound according to the other Gospels?

I have also learned that King Herod's son, Herod Antipas (although Matthew calls him Archelaus), became ruler of Galilee and Perea after his father's death. He was also known to be a tyrant like his father, which is supposedly why Joseph returned to Nazareth from Egypt instead of Jerusalem or Bethlehem. He was also most likely the one responsible for John the Baptist's execution. I guess I don't really have a question for this one, unless anyone would care to explain the two different names. Maybe one is Latin and the other is Greek?

Posted: **Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:38 am**

This is good stuff, Gman, keep 'em coming ...

Posted: **Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:08 pm**

We know that God is also a God of signs or warnings... As an example, Christ said that Peter would disown him three times when the rooster would crow twice Mark 14:30, or that the Jewish temple in the near future would be destroyed Mark 13:1-4.

What is also interesting is the number 40. In fact when we look at scriptures we find that the Israelites spent 40 years in the wilderness due to their rebellion, Numbers 14:34, or the 40 years of punishment that was prophesied against Egypt, Ezekiel 29:11. The number 40 appears to be a reoccurring theme that happens in the Bible and it typically comes in the form of some kind of judgment. And according to Psalms 95:10, forty is the number for an unbelieving generation...

Even stranger were the recordings in the Jewish Talmuds around 30 AD before the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. For 40 hebrew years the Jewish people witnessed these strange signs right after Christ's death on the cross...

First, note what the Jerusalem Talmud has to say on this matter.

"Forty years before the destruction of the Temple [starting in A.D.30] the western light went out, the crimson thread remained crimson, and the lot for the Lord always came up in the left hand. They would close the gates of the Temple by night and get up in the morning and find them wide open. Said Rabban Yohanan ben Zakkai to the Temple, '0 Temple, why do you frighten us? We know that you will end up destroyed. For it has been said 'Open your doors, 0 Lebanon [a symbol for the Temple at Jerusalem which was made from Lebanese timbers], that the fire may devour your cedars' (Zechariah 11:1)" (Sotah 6:3).

The Babylonian Talmud states the following.

"Our rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot ['For the Lord'] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-coloured strap become white; nor did the western most light shine; and the doors of the Hekel would open by themselves, until Yohanan ben Zakkai rebuked them, saying: Hekel, Hekel, why wilt thou be the alarmer thyself? I know about thee that thou wilt be destroyed, for Zechariah ben Iddo has already prophesied concerning thee: Open thy doors, 0 Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars" (Yoma 39b) ."

More here...

"Unusual signs in the ministry of the priests

We are going to be looking at the time when the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans and looking at the period between 30-70 AD to consider some remarkable signs leading up to the destruction of the Temple because some of these very same signs are being repeated in our day. Is it just coincidental? Or could it be that God is trying to send us a message?

Most people know how Titus and the 10th Legion of the Roman Army surrounded the city of Jerusalem in 70 AD, burned the Temple to the ground and took the temple treasures back to Rome. Also he took many of the Jewish people captive that were in the city. Yet most believers today are unaware of the supernatural signs that preceded these historical events.

Jesus Himself predicted the destruction of the Temple and gave the reason why in Matthew 23:34-38. The destruction of the Temple, just like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19) and the flood in Noah's day (Genesis 6:11-13 ), was because of the shedding of innocent blood, the worst form of violence before God.

According to the Jewish Talmud (a book of commentary and discussions by Rabbis), in Yoma 39, there is mention of a number of events or unusual signs that had taken place before but that ceased and never again happened after 30 AD. Before 30 AD, during a 40-year period when a Rabbi by the name of Simeon the Righteous was serving as high priest there were a number of unusual miraculous signs that took place during his ministry as the high priest, that all ceased in the year 30AD. Jewish history tells us that for this 40 year period when Simeon the Righteous was the high priest, prior to 30 AD, these positive supernatural signs took place, then ceased.

What were the signs.

* (1) The drawing of Lots. On the day of atonement, the high priest reached his hand into a box called the lottery and would pull out what some say was a stone, there being a white stone which had written upon it, 'for the Lord' and a black stone which said, 'for azizel'. Then the high priest offered a goat upon the alter as a sacrifice unto the Lord and he laid his hands upon the second goat, called the scapegoat and spoke the sins of the people, which would then be sent into the Judean Wilderness, where it would die, being shoved off a cliff. For centuries, when the high priest reached into that lottery box, it always fell on 'for the Lord', which was the stone removed from the lottery box, until 30AD, when for the first time it fell on 'for azizel.' That continued to happen for the next 40 years. The Jews believed this positive sign to mean that God's blessing was upon them and that He had accepted their sacrifice, but then when 'for azizel' came up in the high priests right hand and kept coming up year after year, they took this to mean God's displeasure upon the priesthood and Israel.

* (2) The second sign was concerning a crimson strap. A red thread was placed around the neck of one of the goats and a red thread around the horns of the other goat. A third red thread or strap was attached to the door of the temple. When the scapegoat was shoved off the hill of the scapegoat in the Judean Wilderness, the red thread on the temple door supernaturally turned white. Isaiah 1:18 says, “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” According to Jewish history that red thread on the temple door turned white consistently, every year, until 30AD, after which it never turned white again from 30 to 70 AD when the Temple was destroyed.

* (3) The third unusual sign was concerning the Candlestick or Menorah in the Temple. Every morning, the wick had to be changed, fresh oil placed in the Menorah and it had to be lit. During the time of Simeon the Righteous, they always lit the Menorah from the western end of it and then from it they would light the other six branches. What happened beginning in 30 AD, was the western branch went out and they were not able to light the other branches from it.

* (4) The Alter of Sacrifice. During the time of Simeon the Righteous, only two logs were used for the entire sacrifice, they lasted all day during the sacrifices on the Day of Atonement. They needed no other logs for the sacrifices. In 30 AD that miracle ceased and they had to keep putting more logs on the fire to enable them to complete the sacrifices.

* (5) The priest would eat a small amount of bread from the table of shewbread. History tells us that the priest was satisfied by eating a piece of bread the size of an olive. That also changed in 30 AD and the priest was no longer satisfied with that small amount of bread.

* (6) There were doors to the Temple that opened and closed by themselves. In Yoma 39, a commentary on Zechariah 11:1, it teaches that the doors of the temple opened and closed by themselves. The scripture says, “Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars.”

All these positive supernatural signs took place until 30 AD, when they ceased and did not happen again for the next 40 years before the destruction of the Temple. Why? Many commentaries have said it was a sign of God's displeasure upon that generation, or God's displeasure upon the illegitimate priesthood appointed by the Romans over the Temple. Though that is true in the natural and the scripture does say that it is first the natural (as a type and shadow) and then the spiritual (1 Corinthians 15:46). But there is something else beyond those things. Hebrews 10:4-10 There were essential defects in these animal sacrifices. 1st.--They were not of the same nature with those who sinned, man. 2nd.--They were not of sufficient value to make satisfaction for the affronts done to the justice and government of God. 3rd.--The beasts offered up under the law could not consent to put themselves in the sinner's room and place. The atoning sacrifice must be one capable of consenting, and must voluntarily substitute himself in the sinner's stead: Christ did so and alone met all the conditions to be our substitute and the propitiation for our sins. Isaiah 53:11

First we have to remember that all these Temple sacrifices and rituals were only a type and shadow to point to Jesus, who was the reality and fulfillment of them. Jesus fulfilled all the types and shadows and sacrifices and made them unnecessary. Let's look at each of the signs.

* (1) Why did the priests' right hand always start picking up 'for azizel' instead of 'for the Lord'? The scapegoat symbolically carried away the sins of the people, transferred by laying on of hands and confession. But this would no longer be needed because Jesus would 'bare our sins' upon the cross and we no longer would need a type and shadow of what He would do for us. Jesus carried the sins of the world. 1 Peter 2:24, Hebrews 9:28, Isaiah 53:11 Jesus became the replacement for the scapegoat, who would bare our sins outside the camp and die for us.

* (2) Why did the red (crimson) thread (strap) on the Temple door no longer turn white after 30 AD? Simply because John 1:29 tells us that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. 2 Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 1:2-3; 2:17

* (3) Why did the western candle on the Menorah go out, which they couldn't re-light? It was a sign that Jesus was now the light of the world (John 8:12), that His light was now replacing the light of the Menorah for He was the Light of the World. John 1:4-9; 9:5; 12:35-36, Revelation 21:23

* (4) Why did the logs that burned on the brazen altar for the sacrifices for so many centuries, need only two logs because they didn't burn up and go out all day, then required many logs because they burned as normal wood? It was because the fire of the Holy Spirit was no longer going to be on that altar, but on a different one according to Matthew 3:11 and our body would be the temple of the Holy Spirit. Acts 1:5, 2:2-4, 1 Corinthians 6:19-20; 12:13, 2 Corinthians 6:16

* (5) Why did the piece of bread from the table of shewbread no longer satisfy the high priest? Because Jesus was the living bread that came down from heaven and we are told to partake of Him (John 6:35). Satisfaction was now in Jesus, not in physical bread or wine. John 6:48-51; 7:37-38; 4:13-14, Revelation 7:15-17

* (6) Why did the doors of the Temple open and close supernaturally and then cease to do so? Because Jesus was now the way unto the father, the way unto salvation. Jesus said, “I am the door” (John 10:7, 9, 1-5). Ephesians 2:18, Hebrews 10:19-23

Because Jesus came into His ministry in 30 AD and became our high priest, and was revealed as all these things above for His people, these signs were no longer needed to point the way to Jesus for He had come in the flesh and they had Him now. God was saying, the Temple and the Temple sacrifices and rituals are no longer needed and they will no longer be the center of my working among men on the earth. All the types and shadows were replaced with the living Christ, our Messiah. He would become God's sacrifice and would make us the Temple of God and the place on earth where His Spirit would reside and He would now work through His people, who would become kings and priests unto God (Revelation 1:5-6). Matthew 5:14, Mark 16:15-16, John 20:21, Acts 1:8, 2 Corinthians 5:17-20, 2 Timothy 2:2-3

We are a triune being, body, soul and spirit, just as the Temple had three parts, outer court, inner court and holy of holies, where God dwelt. Now, it is within our spirit that His spirit comes to dwell, this temple not made with hands and we are made complete in Him (Colossians 2:10). "

Source: http://www.hissheep.org/special/hebrew/ ... _days.html

Posted: **Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:38 pm**

DannyM wrote:This is good stuff, Gman, keep 'em coming ...

Thanks.. And how close is Jerusalem to the Great Rift Valley? Only about 15 miles...

I was around for the 89' earthquake here in California.. And I was only about 12 miles away from the epicenter, and I surly felt it.. 7.1 magnitude.

Evidence for God from Science

The historical evidence for Christ

The historical evidence for Christ

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Re: The historical evidence for Christ

Re: The historical evidence for Christ

Re: The historical evidence for Christ

Re: The historical evidence for Christ

Re: The historical evidence for Christ

Re: The historical evidence for Christ

Re: The historical evidence for Christ

Re: The historical evidence for Christ

Re: The historical evidence for Christ

Re: The historical evidence for Christ

Re: The historical evidence for Christ

Re: The historical evidence for Christ

Re: The historical evidence for Christ