Evidence for God from Science

Hello all, this is my first post. Let me say before anything else that I am thrilled to have found this board, as it seems to be a good, clean area of debate. Obviously I won't agree with everyone, but it is refreshing to see opposing views presented reasonably and without the hate that most boards like this are filled with (well.... for the most part )

On to my question.

I recently had a falling out with traditional Christianity. I did NOT lose my faith in Christ or anything drastic like that, rather I lost much of my faith in many of the, I believe, fallible doctrines that modern Christians hold to. Some of these are not big issues and thus I won't bother anyone with them, but a few are and I will be delving deeper, both on these boards and other areas of research, in the future. But for the moment there is one nagging belief that I am having trouble with, and while it probably won't seem like a huge issue it does bother me at the most random of times.

General acceptance in the Christian doctrine is: when you die, you're dead... it's either heaven or hell with you, and that's it, no turning back. That's what I was taught growing up and is what seems to pass as true for most that I come into contact with. However! there is a lingering issue I have with that doctrine: I can not find anywhere in the Bible that makes such a statement. The closest I can come is: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" Heb 9:27. The verse obviously states that man is doomed to die once, but it does not say when the coming judgment would occur, nor where we go to await that judgment, leaving me to wonder if we would indeed be sent to heaven or hell upon our death.

The main reason I ask this is because a friend recently claimed to see a ghost (yes, hur-hur, it's a ghost). This person is very reliable, so I have no reason to doubt that she saw something, but I am undecided on what it might be. I know many Christians would state it is an evil spirit, and for a long time I would have agreed. However, I recently read through 1 Samuel, and it describes Saul as going to a witch and summoning Samuel, and according to all knowledge I can dig up on the verse it seems scholars generally agree it really was Samuel, not a demon, implying that there was at least some connection between the realm of dead and living. So my question is: where do you believe we go when we die? And furthermore, what evidence to you pull to support it?

Thanks in advance, and apologies if this has been asked elsewhere. There's so much information on these boards, it's hard to process it all

From daniel 12. " There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

John 3:18 "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

Rev. 21:6-8 "He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." "

.
.
The spirit brought up by the Witch of Endor was not Samuel.

To consult mediums/spiritist is evil.
See Leviticus 19:31
Leviticus 20:6
1 Samuel 28:3,9
2 Kings 21:6
2 Kings 23:24
2 Chronicles 33:6
Isaiah 8:19
Isaiah 19:3
Jeremiah 27:9

We are told and should therefore believe, God does not change. Malachi 3:6

The spirit first off came up out of the ground. If when the saved die they go to heaven, logic would tell us that the spirit would have to come down from heaven. Even the spirit "Samuel" acknowledges from where he came. If it was really Samuel, wouldn't Samuel know where he was?
Just because a spirit speaks truth does not make the spirit a spirit sent from God. The spirit didn't give Saul any news he didn't already know.

If God says do not do something, does He change His mind? Did God change His righteous principles for Saul? If it was right for Saul to consult this medium, why does he go in secret? Saul then swears to her she will not be punished for this? Too much lying going on here for God to be part of and thus make it "ok".
.
.

Samheis wrote:Hello all, this is my first post. Let me say before anything else that I am thrilled to have found this board, as it seems to be a good, clean area of debate. Obviously I won't agree with everyone, but it is refreshing to see opposing views presented reasonably and without the hate that most boards like this are filled with (well.... for the most part )

On to my question.

I recently had a falling out with traditional Christianity. I did NOT lose my faith in Christ or anything drastic like that, rather I lost much of my faith in many of the, I believe, fallible doctrines that modern Christians hold to. Some of these are not big issues and thus I won't bother anyone with them, but a few are and I will be delving deeper, both on these boards and other areas of research, in the future. But for the moment there is one nagging belief that I am having trouble with, and while it probably won't seem like a huge issue it does bother me at the most random of times.

General acceptance in the Christian doctrine is: when you die, you're dead... it's either heaven or hell with you, and that's it, no turning back. That's what I was taught growing up and is what seems to pass as true for most that I come into contact with. However! there is a lingering issue I have with that doctrine: I can not find anywhere in the Bible that makes such a statement. The closest I can come is: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" Heb 9:27. The verse obviously states that man is doomed to die once, but it does not say when the coming judgment would occur, nor where we go to await that judgment, leaving me to wonder if we would indeed be sent to heaven or hell upon our death.

The main reason I ask this is because a friend recently claimed to see a ghost (yes, hur-hur, it's a ghost). This person is very reliable, so I have no reason to doubt that she saw something, but I am undecided on what it might be. I know many Christians would state it is an evil spirit, and for a long time I would have agreed. However, I recently read through 1 Samuel, and it describes Saul as going to a witch and summoning Samuel, and according to all knowledge I can dig up on the verse it seems scholars generally agree it really was Samuel, not a demon, implying that there was at least some connection between the realm of dead and living. So my question is: where do you believe we go when we die? And furthermore, what evidence to you pull to support it?

Thanks in advance, and apologies if this has been asked elsewhere. There's so much information on these boards, it's hard to process it all

Death is definitely going to happen to each of us humans.

The Christian faith teaches that after death for each human there is judgment by God, then it's heaven or hell forever.

With Catholics there is purgatory for those who are not yet ready to get to heaven, but are still in need of cleansing which is done to them in purgatory, but they will get to heaven sooner or later.

Just you don't get overly worried about getting to hell, the Lord is not going to let anyone He has created and Christ has died for get to hell easily.

Just you do your best to lead a good life, starting with being kind and nice to everyone even non-Christians; and if you do something that is supposed to be sinful then tell God and Christ you are sorry, and I am sure as I know God to be a Father everything will be all right -- and you can resume your path toward greater goodness.

About whether dead humans their souls that is or even their bodies can come back to the realm of the living in which you and I are still situated, if you believe the Bible they certainly can of course on the leave of God.

When Christ died on the cross don't you read in the Gospel that many saints came out or came forth from their tombs and went to Jerusalem and were seen by many? Hope I get the narrative correct.

And didn't Lazarus whom Jesus loved come forth his tomb on the command of Jesus?

But you really don't have to occupy your mind with such events in the Bible, if anything at all they just show that God is the master of death, and when He wants it or permits it souls of dead folks can return to the realm of the living, even their bodies.

Just you continue to be kind and nice commensurately with your material and moral resources toward everyone created by God.


You are going through a phase and one day you will no longer by 'troubled' by such trivia of the Christian faith and the Christian Bible.

Walk with God all the time and everywhere, and if you fear any unfriendly ghosts or demons or diabolical spirits even Lucifer or Satan himself which two are supposed to be the same or distinct fallen angels, you know what to do.

Here, shout in a loud voice, "In the name of Jesus, get your unwelcome posterior off my space!"



Okay now?




Yrreg