Enoch

[ChrisB]

This has been bugging me for quite some time...

"And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him." Genesis 5:24

Out of all of the people who have "walked with God", why take Enoch? He was after all a sinner like all the rest of us (Rom. 3:23), and lived before Christ's Incarnation, so then how could he even enter Heaven, being unwashed? I mean, unless he had a hot coal put in his mouth to absolve him of sins, like Isaiah (or... maybe he was taken to Sheol/Paradise).

Also, might Enoch (along with Elijah) be one of the two witnesses who are to be killed in the streets of Jerusalem (Rev. 11:7), seeing as neither of them has died yet? (Heb. 9:27)

[Enigma7457]

There is another book called the Book of Enoch supposedly written by himself or (I think) his son. It was not, for whatever reason, included in the Old Testament, so I would read with caution. It is an interesting read and may help shed some light. In it, Enoch served as a messenger/transcriber for the watchers (Fallen Angels, I think, or maybe the Nephilem ["Sons of God"] referred to in Genesis.). He sees some interesting things, and I believe prophesied about the flood (maybe it was about Moses, I'm not sure. Its been a while).

Anyway, take a look and, like I said, read with caution. It might help.

[ChrisB]

Hmm... I've heard it was written in about the mid 4th century B.C., but if it's good enough for Jude to quote, I'll look into it, though I will definately heed your advise and read it with caution. Thanks Enigma.

[CeT-To]

Hey guys watch this video it is the book of enoch ...its actually quite scary the book talks about fallen angels, nephilim and the future of those who attain salvation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGXmfTK5OvA

[cslewislover]

In Hard Sayings of the Bible, the author says that Enoch's body was glorified by God in order to be in His presence. Elijah also would have to have been treated the same. However, the author also uses these two examples to claim that we don't have an intermediate state after death, which many would not agree with. I would just say that God can do as he pleases. The Lord died for all who will accept Him and we are promised that salvation, but, is God limited to that alone? He never has limited Himself in this regard, as far as I know.

I would be very careful in reading the Book of Enoch or any other apocrypha or pseudepigrapha. There are places where some are quoted in the Bible, but I would assume the inspired authors of scripture knew which parts of these documents - which were written late in time - were reliable (also inspired portions).

[CeT-To]

by intermediate state do you mean Sheol/Hades, cslewislover?

[cslewislover]

by intermediate state do you mean Sheol/Hades, cslewislover?

This author actually claims that, yes, which is really surprising to me. Where then did Jesus go when he talked with the captives? I find it strange, since generally Jews could have their sins forgiven because of the sacrifices, yet I did not think that they could be forgiven and made clean in their entirety as we are in Christ. It would be good to delve into this more.

[CeT-To]

yes true but you have to realise that Enoch was at a time before a lot of the covenants were made to the jewish people. Plus umm i think he was talking about fallen angels in hell i think. Oh and he was talking about this place where it is smooth and rocky which i think it was ment for meetings and this wasnt paradise sheol or heaven. So that could have been sheol (the bad part at least) hmmm but yes you are right this needs more research. Well all i know that there are 3 candidates for the two prophets who are to come in the end time which are Elijah, Enoch and Moses ( recall how it says in the bible suspiciously that Michel the archangel and Satan were fighting for Moses's dead body, so that just gave me some ideas)

[ChrisB]

by intermediate state do you mean Sheol/Hades, cslewislover?

This author actually claims that, yes, which is really surprising to me. Where then did Jesus go when he talked with the captives?

I believe it was Sheol (Mat. 12:40), although Jesus could simply have been referencing His tomb.

I find it strange, since generally Jews could have their sins forgiven because of the sacrifices, yet I did not think that they could be forgiven and made clean in their entirety as we are in Christ. It would be good to delve into this more.

I don't think that is at all possible (Heb. 10:4), because if salvation could be attained in any other way, God would not have needed to sacrifice His Son. This was His plan from the beginning (Gen. 3:15, NIV).

[dayage]

Jude quotes from two books The Assumption of Moses (verse 9) and The Book of Enoch (vs. 14-15). All this does is show that these were true statements, not that the sources were inspired. Paul quoted three different Greek poets: Epimenides and Aratus (Acts 17:28), see Paul's agreement (Acts 17:29); Menander (1 Cor. 15:33); Epimenides (Titus 1:12), and Paul's agreement (Titus 1:13). Paul's quotes do not make the works of these men inspired.

In the Old Testament we find the same thing. Numbers 21:14-15 quotes The Book of the Wars of the Lord. Joshua 10:13 quotes The Book of Jashar. 1 Kings often quotes references The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel (1 Kings 14:19; 15:31) and The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Juda (1 Kings 14:29; 15:7). 1 and 2 Chronicles use sources as well (1 Chron. 29:29; 2 Chron. 9:29).

Its good to have reference material.