Evidence for God from Science

Hello all. I come here with quite a heavy heart this night, as I've been burdened with a few questions which the Lord has set me on a journey to find answers for. I'm going to start by saying a few things with regard to this forum, there's a few things I would like to criticize. I've also noticed that not all members of this forum appear to be Christians at this time, and as such I ask that only Christians provide me with the answers I seek. (I'm looking for the most biblically accurate answers I can get)

Now, first off, I'm only the age of sixteen. I lack experience, knowledge, and wisdom when it comes to many issues. I have however, found some things posted on both this forum and the 'Evidence for God from science" website articles. I've been attending a traditional Christian church all my life, and my parents are Christians as well. Despite all this, there are yet things that have raised doubtfulness in my mind in the past. I believe I have overcome these issues by means of prayer and study of the scriptures, but I have a few questions left to ask. I'm going to start off with some things I found around the forum. I'm going to ask that you be slow and understanding with me, as I think I may be jumping to conclusions like the youth so often do.

Alright, firstly. This topic: http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =6&t=34215
It seems to me that everyone is in agreement that a Christian can believe in evolution. This really made me confused. How can one call himself a Christian, but not believe the very words of Genesis? How can one claim to be a Christian, yet claim there's error in the bible? No matter what way, shape, or form they claim it is in?

Secondly, I've noticed in a few topics that people don't like telling non-believers about punishment for their sins. That is to say, hell itself. Now, I don't believe it's right to jam the fact that hell exists down the throats of non-believers. I do however, believe occasionally it's an important subject to share with those who become interested in Christianity. Now most (myself included) will agree that those who wish to share the word with those who don't believe in Christ should start off with God's never ending love and salvation. Where does hell come into play? I've seen it said a few times that, whether or not a person goes to hell is strictly between him and God. This is true, but God tells us that sin without repentance (in most situations, as we are to be judged based upon the knowledge we had, correct? As such, a person who has never heard of Jesus Christ would not be sentence to hell, do to his own lack of knowledge.) is ultimately the path to hell. Is not hell one of the best tools you can use in trying to convert others to Christ? For example, the following scripture: For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling. -Psalm 116:8, I believe it is? Death obviously refers to hell in this scripture. (as well as in quite a few others, which I can't remember off the top of my head.) That is to say, if God did not offer us salvation, we would be cast into hell. Correct? Without using hell as a tool of sharing the Gospel, you're leaving out quite a big bit of God's mercy.

In addition to this, I've noticed some talk of being open-minded about interpretations of scripture. The problem with this is, though you no doubt have to be open to study new interpretations of the Holy Book itself, exactly how open should we be? Yes, as a Christian, we should be loving and respectful to other's opinions. (that is not to say we have to respect the opinions themselves, but the rights to have those opinions. For example, if someone had the opinion that stealing is not a sin, surely we wouldn't have to respect that belief, but the right to have that belief.) Now keep following me here, if we're too open to interpretation, there'll no doubt be those who warp the scriptures too far. (I don't like to use the term too far, as warping the scriptures at all should never be necessary to support a biblical hypothesis. If it is indeed necessary to support your hypothesis, there is no doubt in my mind that it is incorrect.) This sort of ties in to the whole "can a Christian believe in evolution" thing I mentioned earlier. There's a fine line between simply being open to new interpretations for study, and simply letting anyone interpret anything how they want. There ARE biblical absolutes, and hence when someone comes up with a theory or interpretation that does not match the scriptures, it needs to be pointed out. Not just ignored and 'respected'. This irks me because there are quite a few Christians out there, that believe parts of the Bible are untrue, or are in error. (and hence, are too open to false interpretations) No doubt, if a Christian who thinks like this goes to share his beliefs, and maybe even witness to others, it's going to be a spreading of misinformation to other people.

Now onto my own troubles.

In the past years, I have times of doubtfulness. I've tried Atheism, but found that; without a basis for morality or origin of everything as we know it, it falls to nothing but relativism. I tried evolution (yes, atheism is different from those who believe in evolution. Atheism is those who have no beliefs, whereas evolution is clearly a belief.), but found it to be wrapped in nothing but chance. (I don't quite believe in chance. I believe in absolutes. You can claim that flipping a coin is a 50% chance that the coin will land on either side. Yes, you can. However, it's not just magically happening at random. The angle you you flip the coin at, the height the coin is flipped from, and the force with which the coin is flipped are all factors in where it will land. These are physics related items, not chance.) These non-absolutes among other beliefs, mixed with the fact that I sincerely feel I belong to God, and want to worship him. (all of humanity is inclined to worship someone, or something. Hence we have environmentalists, the ways movie/porn stars are portrayed, and even artists etc. I believe this inner desire to worship someone/something is our God given gift to encourage us to seek him out. Even if we're born into non-Christian families.) I feel like, for the first time in my life, I'm taking God's word seriously. I'm willing to openly admit to anyone that I've had problems with sexual perversion. (porn and the like) I'm willing to admit I've cheated in school, I've wronged family members/friends, and I've disrespected God. I have repented of these things, and greatly seek God's forgiveness. As of late, for the first time ever, I've felt compelled to research scripture and worship God.

In-order to continue on my walk with the Lord, I need a few things answered. Particularly in the field of Marriage. Now Marriage is something I've looked forward to all my life. I have the desire to protect and care for someone, and what better to care for and protect than the one you wish to spend your life with? And now, coming from a biblical point of view, how splendid it would be to share in the worship and Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ with the one whom God has meant for me! A helper, and a partner through life! Scriptures in Genesis lead me to believe that God had made both man and woman for each other, woman to help man in his loneliness. And not just, Genesis, but many other scriptures pertaining to raising families, and caring for our wives. No doubt, I'm a bit young to be talking about marriage, but it's something I want to be prepared for. Something I can decide to partake in when I'm ready for it, without complications. I thought God's scriptures had answered all my questions pertaining to the subject, I thought I was 'good to go' so to speak. Then I read this page on the 'main' site. It contains to things I have questions about. Firstly, this scripture:

Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this. What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away. I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs--how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world--how he can please his wife-- and his interests are divided.

This was like a punch to the gut. Though this states that is indeed not a sin to be married, am I disappointing (letting down) God by getting married? Why does God speak so many rules by which to rule a family and care for a wife with, when it appears he would prefer we not be married at all? I simply can't figure out what to make of this.

My last and final question, is this. What about marital sex? Paul speaks that sex is a part of a healthy marriage, correct? This confuses me, though. I had always known that sex is God's gift to married couples, but I always assumed you shouldn't have sex unless you're ready to care for a child. (that is to say, having sex (and children) is an important part of a marriage (thought not required). However, with this assumption comes the assumption that the secondary component of sex (you know what I'm saying, I don't want to use actual terminology here..) is simply a bonus to having a child.) Then, I read this:

The very first command God gave to humans was to "be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth."1 Although we do not usually think of this command in terms of its accomplishment, it is a command for males and females to engage in sexual relations to produce children. Some have taken this command as either requiring that couples must never prevent conception or that the sole purpose of sexual relations is to produce children. Neither of these interpretations are specified in scripture, and, in fact, are contradicted by other biblical passages.

I am SEVERELY confused. This paragraph basically says that prevention conception (and thus using sex only for it's seconday component) is A-OK. I couldn't believe this when I read it. I really couldn't it. My Pastor has never specifically preached on this issue, and I'm too embarrassed to talk to him about it in person. Thus, I ask for one of my fellow believers out there to help me find scripture in which I can use to answer this question. (as well as all of the above)

That's pretty much it. Once again, I ask only for counsel from other Christians, as I'm not interested in the interpretations of an Atheists or anyone else; but the views of the scripture.

Hi Maytan and welcome to the board. It's encouraging that you wanted to ask questions here, and I'm glad for you that you are seeking answers regarding your faith.

I need to look a thing or two up, and I'm not really going to tackle the evolution question in a deep way. I can say this, and that is that many Christians believe in "evolution" in the sense that change takes place within kinds to a great degree. We can see that and have evidence for it (as you can see from domesticated animals and plants). But, that is not the same as the evolution that refers to a change in one kind of creature to another, and it doesn't mean that God wasn't the creator.

Regarding the hell issue, yes, it's good to talk about hell, in my opinion. But I don't "preach" fire and brimstone, as it seems to me, in our modern culture, that people need to see God's love. It seems like they think God unmerciful since there is a hell to begin with. I mean, since hell exists at all, some argue that God is immoral. As for an individual's salvation, I cannot judge whether they're saved or not. There are false prophets, and there are those whom may repent on their death bed.

I want to answer more, but I need to look up some commentaries. I'm sure you'll get many more posts in answer, however.

Ok, so I'm adding this after I posted the above. The verses you quote are from 1 Corinthians 7:25-34 (but that's not the end of that passage). It means what it plainly says, as far as I am aware and from checking with a commentary. We are to help usher in our Lord's kingdom, and Paul is saying that, in his opinion (and he seems to claim it's inspired), that it is easier to serve the Lord when your time and attention are not divided. It is fine to marry, as is talked of in other verses, but it is good to serve the Lord in an undivided way. Now, in this commentary I have, it says that Paul thinks it's as easy to be celibate as to not be celibate. This is where I wonder. Every pastor I've heard talk on this subject said that they thought celibacy was a gift and that not many can go on in life, in a spiritually productive way, and remain celibate. I also don't believe that most people can go on well without a help-mate in life. God did say that man should not be alone, and so to me, a person would have to be gifted in that way to remain unmarried.

I greatly appreciate your reply!

I think I was taking the evolution thing out of context, actually. After all, it'd be silly to deny there's variation within a kind. I think that's where I tripped up. If I'm reading what you said correctly, by evolution you mean what could be called variation?

I agree with your stance on preaching about hell, as well. I hope I didn't imply that I think it should be used as a large tool in trying to minister to a person. I simply wanted to state that I felt as though people are afraid to use it as a tool at all. (even under the right circumstances)

Ok, so I'm adding this after I posted the above. The verses you quote are from 1 Corinthians 7:25-34 (but that's not the end of that passage). It means what it plainly says, as far as I am aware and from checking with a commentary. We are to help usher in our Lord's kingdom, and Paul is saying that, in his opinion (and he seems to claim it's inspired), that it is easier to serve the Lord when your time and attention are not divided. It is fine to marry, as is talked of in other verses, but it is good to serve the Lord in an undivided way. Now, in this commentary I have, it says that Paul thinks it's as easy to be celibate as to not be celibate. This is where I wonder. Every pastor I've heard talk on this subject said that they thought celibacy was a gift and that not many can go on in life, in a spiritually productive way, and remain celibate. I also don't believe that most people can go on well without a help-mate in life. God did say that man should not be alone, and so to me, a person would have to be gifted in that way to remain unmarried.

This paragraph here really put an ease to my heart. While it's obviously still something I'll have to think about, I really appreciate you breaking down further for me. That was a verse I wasn't too familiar with myself (and there's many more I have yet to discover), and as such, reading it kind of came out of nowhere. I think I was being a bit too caught up in my own desires to really analyze and research the scripture.

Maytan, as far as the evolution goes, there is quite a spectrum involved.

Most here accept microevolution, variations within a population that can bring about changes in gene frequencies and shifting the structures within the population.

Most here agree that as of yet we don't have any strong evidence towards those changes leading to broad changes over time.

As far as theistic evolution goes, there is a broad spectrum of beliefs there, where some can view God with a more limited involvement (more of a deist perspective) while others maintain that evolution is merely the rocess He used through time and we are simply viewing the evidence of that process. the latter would hold more strongly to God as an active participant (just as scripture states) and holding His sovereignty (again, as scripture states). With this latter view in mind, chance simply becomes, as you yourself brought up eloquently, really a sum of all of the influences on that coin flip. Applied to theistic evolution, God is in control of the coin flip as He would be with the exchanges and changes with genes.

I have come to the point in my mind that if indeed we were to see evidence of larger scale changes, it would not upset my faith one bit. If God used this process, it would certainly not be any less beautiful and to some degree I find it a more dynamic image of God, being intimately invovled with how things change in order to bring about His will (instead of some vague idea of Him "poofing" it into existence)

With regards to marriage, I would agree with CSLL that few are called to singleness in the sense that they are gifted with that. Some are called to be single for longer periods of time (I would say that I have been called ot be single, although I don't view myself as being gifted with it). I know of a few people who are truly content and at ease being alone and unattached (this is in their forties and fifties) but I don't really think that that verse can be broadly applied to all circumstances. We are social beings, made to be with each other...it is the rare person who doesn't want to be with someone.

For myself, I take great comfort in the scriptures that reveal that, while God may have a great blessing in store for a person or a group, that blessing may take a while to come to fruition. All in God's timing. Think, for instance, of Joseph, of the Hebrew people wandering the desert, of Moses, of Paul with his thorn, of Job....they all had their deserts to endure, even while God was seeing it from His perspective, crafting the gift He would provide. And for Paul? My grace is sufficient....

No, I think Paul's message is directed more to that particular moment in his church.

Welcome aboard!! and may I say for someone so young, you have written showing a maturity and a thoughtfulness rarely seen.

Maytan, as far as the evolution goes, there is quite a spectrum involved.

Most here accept microevolution, variations within a population that can bring about changes in gene frequencies and shifting the structures within the population.

Most here agree that as of yet we don't have any strong evidence towards those changes leading to broad changes over time.

As far as theistic evolution goes, there is a broad spectrum of beliefs there, where some can view God with a more limited involvement (more of a deist perspective) while others maintain that evolution is merely the rocess He used through time and we are simply viewing the evidence of that process. the latter would hold more strongly to God as an active participant (just as scripture states) and holding His sovereignty (again, as scripture states). With this latter view in mind, chance simply becomes, as you yourself brought up eloquently, really a sum of all of the influences on that coin flip. Applied to theistic evolution, God is in control of the coin flip as He would be with the exchanges and changes with genes.

I have come to the point in my mind that if indeed we were to see evidence of larger scale changes, it would not upset my faith one bit. If God used this process, it would certainly not be any less beautiful and to some degree I find it a more dynamic image of God, being intimately invovled with how things change in order to bring about His will (instead of some vague idea of Him "poofing" it into existence)

I'm afraid I'm losing you a little bit here. What I need to know is, exactly how far do you believe these 'micro-evolutions' go? I mean, there's signs of variation everywhere. The many different kinds of dogs/cats we have might have possibly came from a single pair of dogs/cats off the Ark. (something I believe personally) Hence, variation within a kind. I'm not so sure that should be classified as evolution.

However, when it comes to massive scale evolution, like the evolutionist believes in, I'm a bit more skeptical. While variation within a kind is plausible within the limits of the scriptures, large-scale evolution is in direct violation of Genesis. I'm not saying I'd give up my faith instantaneously if 'evidence' was suddenly found for this large-scale evolution (especially when there's been so many false claims), but it'd definitely require a lot of meditation on the Bible. I mean, if one area of the Bible is wrong, who's to say another part doesn't share in the same false teachings? (and with a book as big as the Bible, it'd seem likely that one error would mean more existed.) I don't consider this a problem, however. As I myself strongly believe we won't ever find evidence for anything beyond variations within a kind. (however, if the scripture taught evolution to be true, I would surely believe it. But as it stands, it does not.)

With regards to marriage, I would agree with CSLL that few are called to singleness in the sense that they are gifted with that. Some are called to be single for longer periods of time (I would say that I have been called ot be single, although I don't view myself as being gifted with it). I know of a few people who are truly content and at ease being alone and unattached (this is in their forties and fifties) but I don't really think that that verse can be broadly applied to all circumstances. We are social beings, made to be with each other...it is the rare person who doesn't want to be with someone.

So basically, the scripture is stating (as cslewislover pointed out) that we need to make sure we're setting apart time for both God and our Wives. In addition to that, while in a minority, there will be people who simply aren't called to/don't feel any urge to be married any time soon, and that God doesn't find either way of life a sin?

For myself, I take great comfort in the scriptures that reveal that, while God may have a great blessing in store for a person or a group, that blessing may take a while to come to fruition. All in God's timing. Think, for instance, of Joseph, of the Hebrew people wandering the desert, of Moses, of Paul with his thorn, of Job....they all had their deserts to endure, even while God was seeing it from His perspective, crafting the gift He would provide. And for Paul? My grace is sufficient....

No, I think Paul's message is directed more to that particular moment in his church.

Most definitely! This holds true even for each and everyone of us. Enduring temptation, while awaiting our treasures in heaven! And let me tell you brothers and sisters now, there's no greater treasure than meeting God himself!

Welcome aboard!! and may I say for someone so young, you have written showing a maturity and a thoughtfulness rarely seen.

I thank both of you for the welcome!