Evidence for God from Science

I just finished a tv show on the Discovery channel called "Into the Universe - The Story of Everything" by Stephen Hawking. While I must admit the show had the most stunning and sophisticated effects, it was clearly dipped into the acid of philosophical naturalism. No God required here, nature does the work... Basically the show focuses on the beginning of the universe (how it was started) and how it will likely end via naturalism as creator god.

The Story of Everything? Ok... Well, for those who believe that scientists don't mix their philosophy with their science, this show pretty much puts this idea to rest...

So how did everything come into existence? Answer.. Stars. Everything is made by stars. Our sun is the creator of all the atoms in our eyelashes. Everything is made out of nothing.

So how did life begin? Answer. The most plausible answer is we are an "accident". According to Hawking, "Just by chance some molecules bumped into each other at random until finally one formed that could copy itself, then began the slow process of evolution that led to all the extraordinary diversity of life on earth. Life seems to be simply what matter does given the right conditions and enough time. I think that life is probably quite common throughout the universe, but that's another tale altogether. As life developed it changed the planet on which it was born, altering the very fabric of the earth. After 4.5 billion years, the human race arrived on the scene" -Stephen Hawking.

But then he states, "People are often troubled when they hear this story. How could such an astounding change of events which resulted in us be an accident? Perhaps science has revealed there is some higher authority at work setting the laws of nature so that our universe and we can exist." -Stephen Hawking.

Next big question he asks.."So is there a grand designer who lined up all this good fortune? In my opinion, not necessarily. Look at it this way.. What if there other universes, ones not as lucky as ours, each of these universes could have come from it's own big bang with different laws of physics and different conditions.. For any number of reason's, universes could have come and gone without producing anything at all. So perhaps we should not be too surprised to find ourselves in a perfect universe, orbiting a perfect sun, on a perfect planet because such perfect places are the only ones where life like us can exist. We are one of many products of the universe, the result of an ancient elegant mechanism, but even this remarkable discovery is only just the beginning of what physics can tell us." -Stephen Hawking

Which brings us to our next question. If everything we see was the result of the big bang, stars, and gravity, what started it or was before all that? Answer.. Dark energy.

While I didn't see this show as being a direct attack against creationists, Stephen Hawking was just doing what he naturally does. He studies science. The problem here is when his "naturalistic" views collide with the Bible's view (as God being the creator). This can be a problem because science and the Bible deal with the same thing. Life. But they try to understand it under different types of considerations. One physical or natural and the other spiritual. And that is why they "must" conflict because that are trying to come to an understanding of the same thing, life, from two different points of view. And Hawking clearly made the distinction between the two when he shot down the designer viewpoint. He drew a line in the sand which many naturally do...

In all, I highly disagree with the show.. We are not accidents, we are created in the image of God.

Anyways I have a DVR so I could stop and start the show as I pleased. Some of these are direct "word for word" quotes from the show.

Stephen Hawking

He's such a hack, I watched a show, on the science channel, that tore him down, lol!

Gman wrote: Which brings us to our next question. If everything we see was the result of the big bang, stars, and gravity, what started it or was before all that? Answer.. Dark energy.

Which came from where? How was this energy created?

Gman wrote: Next big question he asks.."So is there a grand designer who lined up all this good fortune? In my opinion, not necessarily. Look at it this way.. What if there other universes, ones not as lucky as ours, each of these universes could have come from it's own big bang with different laws of physics and different conditions.. For any number of reason's, universes could have come and gone without producing anything at all. So perhaps we should not be too surprised to find ourselves in a perfect universe, orbiting a perfect sun, on a perfect planet because such perfect places are the only ones where life like us can exist. We are one of many products of the universe, the result of an ancient an elegant mechanism, but even this remarkable discovery is only just the beginning of what physics can tell us." -unquote

And of course we come to the part which they have absolutely no proof for, only speculations. These universes have the same chance of existing as they have of not existing. Aside from that, the very definition of the universe is everything that exists in the plain of creation (or rather all things that exist aside from the spiritual). So multiple universes have less of a chance of existing than God, but nice try Hawking. These other universes are not even necessary for the idea, just more unprovable hog wash they want us to believe, with no proof of-course, but we have to provide them proof.

Gman wrote: So how did life begin? Answer. The most plausible answer is we are an "accident". According to Hawking, "Just by chance some molecules bumped into each other at random until finally one formed that could copy itself, then began the slow process of evolution that lead to all the extraordinary diversity of life on earth. Life seems to be simply what matter does given the right conditions and enough time. I think that life is probably quite common throughout the universe, but that's another tale altogether. As life developed it changed the planet on which it was born, altering the very fabric of the earth. After 4.5 billion years, the human race arrived on the scene" -unquote.

yeah that totally makes more sense than God.... sure life just happens from a bunch of chemical reactions and the instant you put a bullet into the brain of that reaction, suddenly it stops working completely, yet a bullet to the foot is okay. Nope, has nothing to do with life any form of life force like a soul what so ever. No that would make no sense at all...
And this counts as science...? Wow...

Gman wrote: So how did everything some into existence? Answer.. Stars. Everything is made by stars. Our sun is the creator of all the atoms in our eyelashes. Everything is made out of nothing.

You know with as little solid proof as they give us, they sure expect a lot from us, as our ideas just seem so illogical. Yet for some reason it is more logical to say something comes from nothing.... with no proof as well. So very logical, oh yes!

All bow before the chance god!!!!


And this is why I stopped listening to scientists.
Oh well, some day they shall behold God with their own eyes. Though they will probably try to explain him away as some hallucination or dream.... is it just me or do they seem utterly hopeless?

Sorry for the ranting post, but I just can't stand this kind of thing!

I watched the first episode (the one about aliens) and the second episode (about time travel), and I have the newest one (I guess "the story of everything" one?) on DVR. I'll probably watch that one later tonight, but I guess I don't have much to look forward to?

I didn't much care for the first one, because like you said, it's basically all about naturalism. But I found the second one very interesting. So if he avoids talking about how the universe began and how life began, I think it could be a pretty good show.

Gabrielman wrote: yeah that totally makes more sense than God.... sure life just happens from a bunch of chemical reactions and the instant you put a bullet into the brain of that reaction, suddenly it stops working completely, yet a bullet to the foot is okay. Nope, has nothing to do with life any form of life force like a soul what so ever. No that would make no sense at all...
And this counts as science...? Wow...

It's just a religion like any other religion. Anything that is seeking to probe or give answers to that question is considered a religious confession. Not just simply to those who have an outward form of worship. Everyone is capable of being religious in that sense.

It's all faith based.. A faith that requires miracles too... According to evolutionist George Wald all we need is time..

"What we regard as impossible on the basis of human experience is meaningless here. Given so much time the “impossible” becomes the possible, the possible probable, and the probably virtually certain. One has only to wait: time itself performs the miracles." -George Wald

Even Darwin admitted this, as he stated, “To admit all this is, as it seems to me, to enter into the realms of miracle, and to leave those of science.”

Gabrielman wrote:Sorry for the ranting post, but I just can't stand this kind of thing!

No apology needed.. Hawking is making a philosophical/theological claim. Not a scientific one...

If this is what it takes to be called an "intellectual" I'm not impressed...

This is some really ultra amazing scepticism I am seeing here, keep it up...How about being critical of some other things? You know what i'm driving at?

The11thDr. wrote:This is some really ultra amazing scepticism I am seeing here, keep it up...How about being critical of some other things? You know what i'm driving at?

Such as?

While I respect Hawking's knowledge, he is a theoretical physicist. This means he looks at evidence and makes an inference, also known as an educated guess. His theory of dark energy has not been proven, and until I learn more about his theory of dark energy and what he thinks about it, it would be impossible to make a judgement.

If Hawking simply stated dark energy was before the Big Bang and went no further on the matter, it would be unacceptable as a possible solution. Unless he were to state how and why the dark energy suddenly caused the big bang, it cannot be more than a guess. And unless he provides evidence proving his theory, it becomes metaphysics.

Not to mention, the burning question on my mind is how did this dark energy came to be in the first place as well? Is THIS stuff eternal with no beginning? Because if this stuff is shown to require a beginning then how did it come into being? Hawking's ideas do leave you with more questions than answers that is for certain.

We have not yet been able to observe past the events of the Big Bang, or even observe events close to it. Any theory stated would not have any observable evidence. The Dark Energy theory was stated in my opinion because it sounded intelligent, likewise with his multiverse theory. In reality however, it is just as likely as the giant marshmallow man from ghost busters creating the universe. Unlike these theories however, our theory, Creationism (specifically Old-Earth Creationism), has supporting evidence in the form of the Bible. It is not observational evidence, but the Dark Energy theory, with no evidence, doesn't hold a candle to Creationism.

Telstra Robs wrote:We have not yet been able to observe past the events of the Big Bang, or even observe events close to it. Any theory stated would not have any observable evidence. The Dark Energy theory was stated in my opinion because it sounded intelligent, likewise with his multiverse theory. In reality however, it is just as likely as the giant marshmallow man from ghost busters creating the universe. Unlike these theories however, our theory, Creationism (specifically Old-Earth Creationism), has supporting evidence in the form of the Bible. It is not observational evidence, but the Dark Energy theory, with no evidence, doesn't hold a candle to Creationism.

I've not seen the TV show mentioned, but can I ask what you understand by "the Dark Energy theory"?

Not much now. I have to do more research on it. All I can tell you is this: energy can transform into different kinds of energy and mass is energy. I'm assuming that it's a kind of energy that Stephen Hawking has theorised created the universe, but hasn't gone far enough into his theory here for any kind of analysis. I can't say anything about it other than there is no observational evidence for its existence, which is the job of Hawking as a theoretical physicist: to create theories.

touchingcloth wrote:I've not seen the TV show mentioned, but can I ask what you understand by "the Dark Energy theory"?

According to Hawking, dark energy was used to "kick start" the universe into existence..

As he states....

"The key to it all is something called "dark energy". A mysterious form of energy that pushes space itself apart even as gravity is making matter clump together. It seems as if dark energy supplied the kick that inflated the universe, although we are not quite sure how. What is certain is that the fate of the universe depends on how this dark energy behaves. If the dark energy slowly weakens, the gravity could get the upper hand, and in 20 billion years or so the universe will go into reverse and drive everything back to whence it came. In a strange reversal of the big bang, space itself would contract. This theory is known as the "big crunch." In the end if the theory is right, in 30 billion years from now all the matter in the universe will be swallowed by a single black hole. The entire universe will exist in one tiny point, much as it was at the instant of the big bang." - Stephen Hawking.

But then he goes on to say that, "dark energy will drive the expansion of the universe forever, and that ultimately everything will keep spreading out until the universe is cold and dark. Everything will be so spread apart that even gravity will be defeated. I think a "big chill" is what we got in store not a big crunch." - Stephen Hawking.

Perhaps before this happens man will have evolved enough and find another universe to inhabit.. In order to do this however, we have to master our universe in order to master or understand another one.

In other words, man is ultimately in charge of his destiny.... Forget about God.

derrick09 wrote:Not to mention, the burning question on my mind is how did this dark energy came to be in the first place as well? Is THIS stuff eternal with no beginning? Because if this stuff is shown to require a beginning then how did it come into being? Hawking's ideas do leave you with more questions than answers that is for certain.

It's circular reasoning for sure... Dark energy expands the universe into oblivion or gravity takes hold of it and crunches it back to a single point to expand again. An endless cycle of nothing really. Grab a cup of coffee and watch the fireworks...

And what about the mysteries God? Who cares....

To be honest I really don't have a problem with Hawking's theories... They maybe even have some validity. It's just how someone could look at our big beautiful universe and say that there is no God. Well, not only is that ignorant, it's just plain silly...

God expresses his love to us in so many many different ways.. And yet man doesn't even bat an eye to Him...

Just an fyi.. Do you know what makes that creationists mad? It's really not with the theory of evolution. However, whenever someone takes evolution (like Hawking and others) and uses it as a weapon against the existence of God.... THEN, you are going to get the creationists upset...

Clearer?