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Does the Bible condone violence against other religions?
Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 7:36 am
by smiley
I would like to hear Christian interpretations of the passages like this:
Deuteronomy 13:6
A very straightforward interpretation seems to be that we should kill people of other religions. However, obviously I find it very hard to believe God would command something like that. The non-Christian could also use these verses to show that the wars done in the name of Christianity were inspired by the Bible.
Re: Does the Bible condone violence against other religions?
Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 8:52 am
by Gman
smiley wrote:I would like to hear Christian interpretations of the passages like this:
Deuteronomy 13:6
A very straightforward interpretation seems to be that we should kill people of other religions. However, obviously I find it very hard to believe God would command something like that. The non-Christian could also use these verses to show that the wars done in the name of Christianity were inspired by the Bible.
You have to go back to Deuteronomy chapter 12 to get the whole picture. Yes Deuteronomy 13:6-10 addresses death to the practices of another god, but we also have to understand that it was addressed to the people of the Canaanite culture and to the Canaanite gods and religious practices of child sacrificing.. The bible makes it very clear that there was a death penalty for anyone who performed human/child sacrifice, Lev 18:21; 20:2-5.
Deuteronomy 12:29-32
29 The LORD your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, 30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, "How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same."
31 You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.
Re: Does the Bible condone violence against other religions?
Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:15 am
by Gman
If you want to fault the bible for the death penalty to those practicing child sacrifices, you might as well destroy our current judicial systems in practice today too.. Killing children is NEVER an excepted practice in any culture..
Re: Does the Bible condone violence against other religions?
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:58 am
by smiley
Not to nit-pick, Gman, but you'll have to admit that the one verse (and many others) that I quoted do not specifically address Canaanite gods. In fact, it explicitly says gods from "one side of the earth to another". This could be Allah, Zeus or any such similar "god".
Possibly, earth in this context could be interpreted as "land". But we'll need someone who understands Hebrew to confirm this.
Of course, it may just be that these commands were exclusive to the Jews who had a much higher accountability due to being God's "chosen people". But the bottom line is, I don't think that the atheist is completely distorting things when he argues that the Crusades may have been inspired by the Bible, whether or not their interpretation was correct.
Re: Does the Bible condone violence against other religions?
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:27 pm
by jlay
The interpretation is just what it says. This has no 'Christian' implications. So, it doesn't affect, 'we.'
This was for Israel at the time of that covenant. And yes, it was strict. God wasn't messing around with His intentions for Israel. This has ZERO to do with the Christian church.
Re: Does the Bible condone violence against other religions?
Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:23 am
by Gman
smiley wrote:Not to nit-pick, Gman, but you'll have to admit that the one verse (and many others) that I quoted do not specifically address Canaanite gods. In fact, it explicitly says gods from "one side of the earth to another". This could be Allah, Zeus or any such similar "god".
Which verses are you referring to? You have to understand that Israel had to defend herself and squelch evil in and around the holy land.
Let me ask you this.. Do you condemn the United States for entering WWII? Should we just let these Hitler types rape, pillage, and plunder anyone he likes? Also why do we have a police force? Why do we need them?
smiley wrote:Possibly, earth in this context could be interpreted as "land". But we'll need someone who understands Hebrew to confirm this.
Of course, it may just be that these commands were exclusive to the Jews who had a much higher accountability due to being God's "chosen people". But the bottom line is, I don't think that the atheist is completely distorting things when he argues that the Crusades may have been inspired by the Bible, whether or not their interpretation was correct.
What? The crusades were pretty much a response to the attacks of the muslims. Whether the crusades were justified by God is another question..
Again there will always be wars in this life.. And when one county attacks another, there will be ramifications.
Re: Does the Bible condone violence against other religions?
Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:30 am
by truthman
It is best to post the passage for clarity.
Deuteronomy 13:6 ΒΆ If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
The passage limits itself in its application to close family or friends who try to entice an Israelite to go and worship other gods such as the gods of the Canaanites, and does not even say that they were to kill the other people who worshiped other gods. It can in no way be construed to mean that Christians should kill people of other religions.
Jesus clearly taught His disciples to love all men, including their enemies. (Matthew 5:44)
BTW, Allah is not technically another or different god, it is simply the Arabic word for god or God having originally been identical with the Hebrew word for God "eloah".
Re: Does the Bible condone violence against other religions?
Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:45 am
by smiley
jlay wrote:The interpretation is just what it says. This has no 'Christian' implications. So, it doesn't affect, 'we.'
This was for Israel at the time of that covenant. And yes, it was strict. God wasn't messing around with His intentions for Israel. This has ZERO to do with the Christian church.
Aha. And yet, Paul tells you that you should keep the OT Law.
truthman wrote:
Jesus clearly taught His disciples to love all men, including their enemies. (Matthew 5:44)
Irrelevant. Even the passage I quoted tells you that you should stone to death "the friend whom you love". So just because you love someone doesn't mean that you should be nice to them.
Re: Does the Bible condone violence against other religions?
Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:09 pm
by RickD
BTW, Allah is not technically another or different god, it is simply the Arabic word for god or God having originally been identical with the Hebrew word for God "eloah".
Allah is a moon god. One god of many in Islam. Not the same as the God of the Bible.
Re: Does the Bible condone violence against other religions?
Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:02 pm
by truthman
RickD wrote:BTW, Allah is not technically another or different god, it is simply the Arabic word for god or God having originally been identical with the Hebrew word for God "eloah".
Allah is a moon god. One god of many in Islam. Not the same as the God of the Bible.
Please do more research. There is only one God in Islam. Perhaps you meant to say that Allah was the Arabic moon god before the rise of Muhammad and Islam, but that is not really reasonable either.
Here is a quote from an Islam apologetic site on the internet but is quite reasonable nonetheless when you understand that Muhammad the pagan first learned about the one True God from the Christians and Jews of his day:
It seems unlikely that the name Allah comes from al-ilaah "the God", but rather from the Aramaic/Syriac alaha, meaning 'God' or 'the God'. The final 'a' in the name alaha was originally the definite article 'the' and is regularly dropped when Syriac words and names are borrowed into Arabic. Middle-eastern Christianity used 'alah' and 'alaha' frequently, and it would have often been heard.
But in the Aramaic/Syriac language there are two different 'a' vowels, one rather like the 'a' in English 'hat' and the other more like the vowel in 'ought'. In the case of 'alah', the first vowel was like 'hat' and the second like 'ought'. Arabic does not have a vowel like the one in 'ought', but it seems to have BORROWED this vowel along with the word 'alah'. If you know Arabic, then you know that the second vowel in 'allah' is unique; it occurs only in that one word in Arabic.
Scholars believe that Jesus spoke mostly Aramaic, although sometimes he spoke Hebrew and he might have spoken Greek on some occasions. If Jesus spoke Aramaic, then he referred to God using basically the same word that is used in Arabic. --
http://www.submission.org/allah-god.html
Re: Does the Bible condone violence against other religions?
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:44 am
by jlay
Aha. And yet, Paul tells you that you should keep the OT Law.
What? Please demonstrate how the context of Paul's epistles say any such thing.
Re: Does the Bible condone violence against other religions?
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:20 am
by RickD
truthman wrote:RickD wrote:BTW, Allah is not technically another or different god, it is simply the Arabic word for god or God having originally been identical with the Hebrew word for God "eloah".
Allah is a moon god. One god of many in Islam. Not the same as the God of the Bible.
Please do more research. There is only one God in Islam. Perhaps you meant to say that Allah was the Arabic moon god before the rise of Muhammad and Islam, but that is not really reasonable either.
Here is a quote from an Islam apologetic site on the internet but is quite reasonable nonetheless when you understand that Muhammad the pagan first learned about the one True God from the Christians and Jews of his day:
It seems unlikely that the name Allah comes from al-ilaah "the God", but rather from the Aramaic/Syriac alaha, meaning 'God' or 'the God'. The final 'a' in the name alaha was originally the definite article 'the' and is regularly dropped when Syriac words and names are borrowed into Arabic. Middle-eastern Christianity used 'alah' and 'alaha' frequently, and it would have often been heard.
But in the Aramaic/Syriac language there are two different 'a' vowels, one rather like the 'a' in English 'hat' and the other more like the vowel in 'ought'. In the case of 'alah', the first vowel was like 'hat' and the second like 'ought'. Arabic does not have a vowel like the one in 'ought', but it seems to have BORROWED this vowel along with the word 'alah'. If you know Arabic, then you know that the second vowel in 'allah' is unique; it occurs only in that one word in Arabic.
Scholars believe that Jesus spoke mostly Aramaic, although sometimes he spoke Hebrew and he might have spoken Greek on some occasions. If Jesus spoke Aramaic, then he referred to God using basically the same word that is used in Arabic. --
http://www.submission.org/allah-god.html
No, Allah is the moon god. Just one of many gods. Allah is not the same as the God of the Bible. Allah has no son. Jesus is the Son, and fully God. I've done my research, so spare me the high and mighty tones. You say there is only one god in Islam. There is only one god, and his prophet( Muhammad). So, that's the same as the God of the Bible? I think you may have to change your screen name to not-so-Truthman.
Re: Does the Bible condone violence against other religions?
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:25 am
by truthman
Again, it does no favour to Christianity to make ignorant unsubstantiated statements like "Allah is the moon god".
The correct statement would be that the Allah described in the Qur'an is not identical with the God described in the Bible, or that the Allah of Islam is not identical with the God of true Christianity.
However, if you read what the Qur'an says about Allah, or what Muslims say they believe about Allah, there is no way you can identify Allah as the moon god.
Re: Does the Bible condone violence against other religions?
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:44 am
by RickD
truthman wrote:Again, it does no favour to Christianity to make ignorant unsubstantiated statements like "Allah is the moon god".
The correct statement would be that the Allah described in the Qur'an is not identical with the God described in the Bible, or that the Allah of Islam is not identical with the God of true Christianity.
However, if you read what the Qur'an says about Allah, or what Muslims say they believe about Allah, there is no way you can identify Allah as the moon god.
You said
BTW, Allah is not technically another or different god, it is simply the Arabic word for god or God having originally been identical with the Hebrew word for God "eloah".
"technically", Allah IS another god. Allah is NOT the God of the Bible. THAT is my point. I"ve read enough to know that my statements aren't unsubstantiated. You may not agree, and I'm not trying to change your opinion. I just wanted to say that Allah is not the same as the God of the Bible. I was just disagreeing with your statement.
Re: Does the Bible condone violence against other religions?
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:47 am
by RickD
This is only one of many who agree with me.
The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.
The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel. moongod.htm
Just because the name Allah may be translated as "God", doesn't mean that the "allah" that Muslims worship is the same God as the God of the Bible. Mormons worship Jesus, correct? That doesn't mean that it's the same Jesus as the Bible's Jesus. Does that make sense?