Evidence for God from Science

I don't see how this will make anything but an aesthetic difference in my life. I've often just said I was christian just so people wouldn't hassle me about it. I truly don't believe in god, and I don't see why I should. Convince me?

DocSir wrote:I don't see how this will make anything but an aesthetic difference in my life.

Religion which only creates aesthetic differences isn't really religion methinks. Have you tried Asceticism?

DocSir wrote:I don't see how this will make anything but an aesthetic difference in my life. I've often just said I was christian just so people wouldn't hassle me about it. I truly don't believe in god, and I don't see why I should. Convince me?

Hint... We follow God because we value love. God is love 1 John 4:8. God is completely and perfectly pure in love. It is so powerful that hate cannot exist with it.. Is love what you want in your life? Then you shouldn't have a problem with God.

DocSir wrote:I don't see how this will make anything but an aesthetic difference in my life. I've often just said I was christian just so people wouldn't hassle me about it. I truly don't believe in god, and I don't see why I should. Convince me?

Well, as a Christian I believe God promises to refine us in this life so our faith (and character) becomes more and more purified. So you can expect hardships and tests.

I guess I would ask you what you think it means to be a Christian and what you would need to believe in God.

TRUTH!!

You would be an absolute fool to "believe" something you didn't believe in. In fact the whole proposition sounds crazy, doesn't it?
And stating that you are something you aren't, only makes you to be a liar. Not a real good way to discover the truth. Especially if knowing the truth is tied to personal testimony of others you might encounter in this short life.

I appreciate what G-man is trying to say, but I doubt the person who is coming from Doc's position has any grasp by what is meant by "God is love." As Christians we KNOW that the love described is not the love that is known or defined in this world.

What is a Christian? A Christian is a person who knows they need Christ, and has responded in trust regarding who He is, what He said, and what He did. Everyone believes something. Everyone trust in something, and takes up a faith position. Even the most ardent atheist. I have a position, you have a position. If truth exist, then there is a correct position, and by rule, contradicting positions can not both be true.

To be a Christian you would have to first be convinced there is a God. Not just a God, but the God. The unmade, eternal, creator.
Why should you? Simple. Just starting with the concept of a creator God. If it is true, you should believe it. If it is false, you should reject it.
Would you agree this a reasonable statement?

So, the question becomes, "Is this true, and is it knowable?" Obviously we can't "prove" in the sense that we can prove, "2+2=4."
But there are many proofs, and the board is a good starting point, and there are many other resources as well.
One cool thing to consider is that you have a mind that can formulate the very question you proposed. Now, from my perspective, I would say this is good evidence in and of itself. Because sir, you are from the only beings in the known universe to be able to even consciously arrive at such a queston. If we boiled your question down to the root, we could conclude that you are asking, "why am I here?"

You have obviously rejected the idea of a creator God. So, I would ask, Why?
What are the sound evidences you have studied and trusted in, to conclude that God, is not?

If you are stating that becoming a Christian would only change you aesthetically, then that tells me that you have a very warped definition of what it is to be a Christian. That isn't an attack, but merely an observation, based on your own statement. So, this would tell me that your rejection of Christianity is not based on your right understanding of what constitutes Christianity. I can not draw any conclusions as to how or why you have arrived at this warped understanding, only that you have. But, based on your admission to lying to others about who you are, I can conclude that much of it is your own doing.

If I was teaching a child math, and the child said, "I do not believe that 2+2=4, because I don't see how it will make any difference." Well, I know that this child has rejected the truth, and has rejected it on very unsound reasons. Why? Because I know and practice the truth. If Christ is the truth, and you have rejected it on unsound reasons, then the implications are of eternal consequence. Your failure, or past unwillingness to discern it, is not proof against it.

Please read this next question carefully. Keep in mind that I am not asking you to trust Christ.
If Christ is the truth, would you trust in Him? If yes is the answer, then we can start the path to sharing with you the evidence. If the answer is no, then you are an antagonist, and it is futile to offer you any evidence.

jlay wrote:TRUTH!!

You would be an absolute fool to "believe" something you didn't believe in. In fact the whole proposition sounds crazy, doesn't it?
And stating that you are something you aren't, only makes you to be a liar. Not a real good way to discover the truth. Especially if knowing the truth is tied to personal testimony of others you might encounter in this short life.

I appreciate what G-man is trying to say, but I doubt the person who is coming from Doc's position has any grasp by what is meant by "God is love." As Christians we KNOW that the love described is not the love that is known or defined in this world.

What is a Christian? A Christian is a person who knows they need Christ, and has responded in trust regarding who He is, what He said, and what He did. Everyone believes something. Everyone trust in something, and takes up a faith position. Even the most ardent atheist. I have a position, you have a position. If truth exist, then there is a correct position, and by rule, contradicting positions can not both be true.

To be a Christian you would have to first be convinced there is a God. Not just a God, but the God. The unmade, eternal, creator.
Why should you? Simple. Just starting with the concept of a creator God. If it is true, you should believe it. If it is false, you should reject it.
Would you agree this a reasonable statement?

So, the question becomes, "Is this true, and is it knowable?" Obviously we can't "prove" in the sense that we can prove, "2+2=4."
But there are many proofs, and the board is a good starting point, and there are many other resources as well.
One cool thing to consider is that you have a mind that can formulate the very question you proposed. Now, from my perspective, I would say this is good evidence in and of itself. Because sir, you are from the only beings in the known universe to be able to even consciously arrive at such a queston. If we boiled your question down to the root, we could conclude that you are asking, "why am I here?"

You have obviously rejected the idea of a creator God. So, I would ask, Why?
What are the sound evidences you have studied and trusted in, to conclude that God, is not?

If you are stating that becoming a Christian would only change you aesthetically, then that tells me that you have a very warped definition of what it is to be a Christian. That isn't an attack, but merely an observation, based on your own statement. So, this would tell me that your rejection of Christianity is not based on your right understanding of what constitutes Christianity. I can not draw any conclusions as to how or why you have arrived at this warped understanding, only that you have. But, based on your admission to lying to others about who you are, I can conclude that much of it is your own doing.

If I was teaching a child math, and the child said, "I do not believe that 2+2=4, because I don't see how it will make any difference." Well, I know that this child has rejected the truth, and has rejected it on very unsound reasons. Why? Because I know and practice the truth. If Christ is the truth, and you have rejected it on unsound reasons, then the implications are of eternal consequence. Your failure, or past unwillingness to discern it, is not proof against it.

Please read this next question carefully. Keep in mind that I am not asking you to trust Christ.
If Christ is the truth, would you trust in Him? If yes is the answer, then we can start the path to sharing with you the evidence. If the answer is no, then you are an antagonist, and it is futile to offer you any evidence.

DocSir wrote:I don't see how this will make anything but an aesthetic difference in my life. I've often just said I was christian just so people wouldn't hassle me about it. I truly don't believe in god, and I don't see why I should. Convince me?

Try a book named "The case for Christ" by Lee Strobel.

You know, I am happy you have come to this point of asking this question. It only means to me that you are seeking, seeking for the truth. It is a good step to knowing, to finding.

I would not convince you to change from being an atheist to a christian. It is a personal choice that will come upon in the proper time. And, such time has started when you join this forum and started asking questions.

It is my wish, hope and prayer that you will find what you are seeking.. That you will find God.

God bless you,
Amy
Saeco Kaffeevollautomat

@Docsir:

Not sure that anyone can "convince" you to be a Christian, anymore than you could "convince" me to be an atheist. Hebrews 11 talks about faith and how without faith we cannot please God. I don't believe that God wants us to be absolutely certain that He exists. He knows that there is room for doubt, which means that we need faith to believe.

After the disciple Thomas expressed doubts that Jesus was alive after His resurrection, Jesus allowed Thomas to touch him, but said, 'Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed' (John 20:26-29). I cannot convince you to believe in God. I can only say why I believe. For me it's the Biblical prophecies, which I believe have been fulfilled, and seeing God work in my life and answer prayers.

I may have some doubts about whether God exists, but I just cannot accept atheism as making any sense. Something from nothing doesn't make sense to me, which is what atheists seem to accept as the beginning of the universe and life.

Please Read in Entirety
jlay, you should be a bishop or something. Talking in circles will get you there. Maliciously twisting words when you perfectly well know their meaning is a sign of duplicity and blindness. It's people like you that make me fear religion. Sheep following people like you are akin to people following Hitler because of their 'faith' in him. While personally I feel faith is necessary, I feel it is necessary to feel it for yourself and for humanity as a whole. Any other form of faith is incredibly dangerous. Oh yeah, and if you were a teacher (though I doubt you'd be very good at it judging from your way of handling others) and you were teaching 2+2=4 it is generally the same as teaching a child faith. We have faith in this statement because we have held it as 'true'. It is as made up as religion is. Perception is everything, if we perceive truthful statements as false, and society judges them as such, it becomes a falsity. Your point(s) are rather pointless.

sinnerbybirth, I know of that book, my father owns it and says it's a good read. I'll try to read it in the next few weeks

amyweaver29, Thank you for your kind words and sincere wishes.

Patricia, Please do yourself a favor and rip out the entire book of John. Matthew, Mark and Luke are much more accurate. John seriously created problems for your religion. He put words in Jesus's mouth to an extent that should be illegal. Jesus never said in any of the other three books that he was the son of god, John does. The explanation is actually pretty simple; at the time John wrote his book the church was trying to expand its footing in more areas, 'spreading the word' as it were. The problem with this was many natives to other countries had very pagan gods so their transition to Jesus and christianity/catholicism was made harder. John wrote in many things to help them see this religion as more credible to them, but now it's causing trouble with historians in the field of the bible.

In summary, what I believe to this day is that there is a sort of god, but only in the way that we use the term. I do not, and never will believe in a supreme intelligence that is the creator of all things because it simply sounds ridiculous to me. My little mind can't comprehend that there is something other than creation and destruction. All I've ever known, or anybody else has ever known in there lives is a cyclical understanding of the world around them. Everything is created, everything is eventually destroyed. However, I can appreciate the intense want humans have for something definite. Something all knowing and supreme, it's just not my cup of tea to (to my knowledge) lie to myself just so I can live a happy little life. Understanding is important to me, beyond belief or expectation but I must do it without feeling tricked or deceived. But back to 'god', I believe god is having faith, but in the tangible, in the controllable. Everything man kind has ever wanted or can conceive is possible with faith; but not faith to an entity yet unknown to us. I guess in the end I find faith in this religion pointless as long as there is no proof. I'll end with a question; What makes christianity the religion that is 'correct'? Why is polytheism wrong? Why did you choose to believe in just one god instead of the many gods of the Aztecs or Greeks? God is a symbol of humanity, the bible; it's stories. We must be a little less serious as a race, don't you think

*All of the above are meant with no malicious intent, only personal knowledge through user response. Please, take no offence.*

DocSir wrote: Patricia, Please do yourself a favor and rip out the entire book of John. Matthew, Mark and Luke are much more accurate. John seriously created problems for your religion. He put words in Jesus's mouth to an extent that should be illegal. Jesus never said in any of the other three books that he was the son of god, John does. The explanation is actually pretty simple; at the time John wrote his book the church was trying to expand its footing in more areas, 'spreading the word' as it were. The problem with this was many natives to other countries had very pagan gods so their transition to Jesus and christianity/catholicism was made harder. John wrote in many things to help them see this religion as more credible to them, but now it's causing trouble with historians in the field of the bible.

Wow, this is very odd. There is no problem with the book of John, and yes, Jesus and other witnesses say Jesus is the son of God in the other gospels. At the beginning of Jesus' ministry, before He ever claimed it, Satan already knows about Him (Matthew 4:6). It is implied in the Centurion's faith, Matthew 8:5-13. Others I'm finding in just a few minutes: Matthew 3:17 (I don't know, maybe God himself isn't a good enough witness? Maybe it was some other spirit, in your view?), Matthew 11:27; 16:13-17 . . . Ok, I'm done doing that for the time being. There is no problem with John and historians, so I don't know where you're getting this. John is different since he wrote it later, providing information that was not included in the other three gospels. Why write a fourth one, unless there's a reason? John was a direct witness to Christ, and the disciple/apostle whom Jesus loved . . . He wrote what he did, at that time, addressing heresies as well. All he said is true, he just didn't feel the need to write it down earlier. You can bet he preached these things earlier, before he wrote them down.

DocSir wrote:I do not, and never will believe in a supreme intelligence that is the creator of all things because it simply sounds ridiculous to me.

So why are you here then? Did you not read the board purpose? This is obviously not the place for you to be if that is your view.
Board Purpose

Wow, this is very odd. There is no problem with the book of John, and yes, Jesus and other witnesses say Jesus is the son of God in the other gospels. At the beginning of Jesus' ministry, before He ever claimed it, Satan already knows about Him (Matthew 4:6). It is implied in the Centurion's faith, Matthew 8:5-13. Others I'm finding in just a few minutes: Matthew 3:17 (I don't know, maybe God himself isn't a good enough witness? Maybe it was some other spirit, in your view?), Matthew 11:27; 16:13-17 . . . Ok, I'm done doing that for the time being. There is no problem with John and historians, so I don't know where you're getting this. John is different since he wrote it later, providing information that was not included in the other three gospels. Why write a fourth one, unless there's a reason? John was a direct witness to Christ, and the disciple/apostle whom Jesus loved . . . He wrote what he did, at that time, addressing heresies as well. All he said is true, he just didn't feel the need to write it down earlier. You can bet he preached these things earlier, before he wrote them down.

DocSir wrote: sinnerbybirth, I know of that book, my father owns it and says it's a good read. I'll try to read it in the next few weeks

Hey DocSir,

I may be wrong on this but, you seem to be searching for some answers. I see you to be struggling with a few issues about the existence of GOD. The best anology I can use is this: Do you have a brain? I would bet your answer is yes. Have you ever seen your brain? I would bet your answer would be no. Then how do you know you have a brain? The same is true of GOD. Just because I haven't seen him doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

You owe it to yourself to atleast weigh the evidence and make a fair call on his existence. This is one of the reasons I told you about Lee's book. He came from the same view as yourself. Lee did the digging to see if there really is a GOD or not. He interviews people in his book that have more letters behind their name than I can imagine. All the people he interviews have spent almost an entire lifetime searching and digging for answers themselves. Do some background checking on the poeple he interviews. This book helped me to see that there really is factual evidence, not opinions for the existence of GOD.

GOD does exist. He also loves you. I believe that is why you are here and asking questions.

DocSir, I will pray GOD will help you to see clearly in your search for the truth about him.

GOD Bless you.

SinnerByBirth, that's very nice of you. We need to remember to pray for all who come here, and for each other, too.