Evidence for God from Science

If you met someone who believes in Geocentricity(the belief that the earth is the center of the solar system and/or universe), and that person claims to be a Christian, what would you think?

I would "think" that it might be a launching point for further discussion.

With the advent of relativity, geocentricity is no longer such a far stretch. Relativity allows you to choose your point of reference. You can choose the earth as your point of reference if you wish.
If you choose the sun as your point of reference, the solar system would be solar-centric, but that is not the only legitimate or viable point of reference.

I would think that they are promoting a very dark age view of the world, the earth is not the worst place in the universe and at the centre of the world is not hell.(down below )

RickD wrote:If you met someone who believes in Geocentricity(the belief that the earth is the center of the solar system and/or universe), and that person claims to be a Christian, what would you think?

I would think that they just didn't know much ''stuff'' about the world, period.

FL

It saddens me that so few seem to grasp the application of relativity.
If you hold to a Newtonian view of the solar system, you are the one still in the "dark ages".

This is the "Statement of Faith" from Geocentricity.com. It is a group that believes....well I'll let you see what they believe by their statement:

Credo of the Biblical Astronomer
The Biblical Astronomer was originally founded in 1971 as the Tychonian Society, on the premise that the only absolutely trustworthy information about the origin and purpose of all that exists and happens is given by God, our Creator and Redeemer, in his infallible, preserved word, the Holy Bible, commonly called the King James Bible. All scientific endeavor which does not accept this revelation from on high without any reservations, literary, philosophical or whatever, we reject as already condemned in its unfounded first assumptions.

We believe that the creation was completed in six twenty-four hour days and that the world is not older than about six thousand years. We maintain that the Bible teaches us of an earth that neither rotates daily nor revolves yearly about the sun; that it is at rest with respect to the throne of him who called it into existence; and that hence it is absolutely at rest in the universe.

We affirm that no man is righteous and so all are in need of salvation, which is the free gift of God, given by the grace of God, and not to be obtained through any merit or works of our own. We affirm that salvation is available only through faith in the shed blood and finished work of our risen LORD and saviour, Jesus Christ.

Lastly, the reason why we deem a return to a geocentric astronomy a first apologetic necessity is that its rejection at the beginning of our Modern Age constitutes one very important, if not the most important, cause of the historical development of Bible criticism, now resulting in an increasingly anti-Christian world in which atheistic existentialism is preaching a life that is really meaningless.

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word,
it is because there is no light in them. -- Isaiah 8:20

I can see a few errors in this alone. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

Intentional ignorance elevated to a religious virtue is the worst form of self-delusion that I know of.

Canuckster1127 wrote:Intentional ignorance elevated to a religious virtue is the worst form of self-delusion that I know of.

Bart, to what is this referring?

RickD wrote:

Canuckster1127 wrote:Intentional ignorance elevated to a religious virtue is the worst form of self-delusion that I know of.

Bart, to what is this referring?

Sorry I wasn't clear Rick. I was referring to the statement of Geocentricity. Elevating a literal hermeneutic and drawing conclusions that are completely contrary to what can be observed and calling that a virtue, is just self-delusion. I think it's a sad statement on a very small faction of Christianity that can only be described in my opinion, as willfully ignorant.

Canuckster1127 wrote:

RickD wrote:

Canuckster1127 wrote:Intentional ignorance elevated to a religious virtue is the worst form of self-delusion that I know of.

Bart, to what is this referring?

Sorry I wasn't clear Rick. I was referring to the statement of Geocentricity. Elevating a literal hermeneutic and drawing conclusions that are completely contrary to what can be observed and calling that a virtue, is just self-delusion. I think it's a sad statement on a very small faction of Christianity that can only be described in my opinion, as willfully ignorant.

Bart, in your opinion, why would someone be willfully ignorant of this? This paragraph is really puzzling to me

We believe that the creation was completed in six twenty-four hour days and that the world is not older than about six thousand years. We maintain that the Bible teaches us of an earth that neither rotates daily nor revolves yearly about the sun; that it is at rest with respect to the throne of him who called it into existence; and that hence it is absolutely at rest in the universe.

Why would someone STILL hold to this, even after modern astronomy has shown it to be untrue?

I can see a few errors in this alone. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

Never heard of this group, nor do I know a YECer or anyone else that thinks the earth doesn't rotate and orbit the sun. Is there a large movement of people flocking to this, or is this just another tiny fringe nut group? This person can be rightly saved by right faith in Christ, just as anyone who can be wrong about a number of science matters, can also be saved.

I believe the earth is the center of the solar system and universe.
That doesn't mean I think the planets revolve around us. I believe in the exact same solar system you see laid out in any science book. But, I still believe the earth is the center. Why? Because I trust God's Word. That the purpose of this earth, solar system, and universe is God's will for us to have life. The moon exist because of us. It exist to do what it was made for. To regulate our tides and allow us to exist. Without a moon, there is likely no life on earth. Jupiter and Saturn exist and are in their precise locations because the earth is the center of the universe. They protect us like giant vacumn cleaners, cleaning up space debris that might crash into us. So, in that regard, yes, the earth is the center of the universe. If someone says they have to be the center of attention, does that describe the physical location they need to stand in room? I believe that every super nova, planet, and bit of matter in this universe exist for one reason. That this earth might exist, and that we might be on it, to God's glory. Obviously I am referring to figurative geocentricity. I don't see how one can be a Christian and not be a geocentrist. In the figurative sense of course. So, in the same way Rich that you laugh at these folks (and it appears you have just cause) the secular, atheistic world of science laughs at you. On the scale of things, you and I are only fractions apart from these literal geocentrists.

The Biblical Astronomer was originally founded in 1971 as the Tychonian Society, on the premise that the only absolutely trustworthy information about the origin and purpose of all that exists and happens is given by God, our Creator and Redeemer, in his infallible, preserved word, the Holy Bible, commonly called the King James Bible.

I guess the word of God was absent before 1611, according to these guys as well.

Is there a large movement of people flocking to this, or is this just another tiny fringe nut group? This person can be rightly saved by right faith in Christ, just as anyone who can be wrong about a number of science matters, can also be saved.

jlay, this is the first that I've heard of this belief. I was just searching and came across this website. I don't think this is a large movement.

I believe the earth is the center of the solar system and universe.
That doesn't mean I think the planets revolve around us. I believe in the exact same solar system you see laid out in any science book. But, I still believe the earth is the center.

I can completely understand this jlay. I just can't understand this

We maintain that the Bible teaches us of an earth that neither rotates daily nor revolves yearly about the sun; that it is at rest with respect to the throne of him who called it into existence; and that hence it is absolutely at rest in the universe.

To me, there is a big difference between figurative and physical geocentricity.

So, in the same way Rich that you laugh at these folks (and it appears you have just cause) the secular, atheistic world of science laughs at you. On the scale of things, you and I are only fractions apart from these literal geocentrists.

I'm not so much laughing at this, as I'm just confused how a reasonably intelligent person could actually believe this. I've been searching different creation theories, and this was just one thing I found.

Canuckster1127 wrote:Intentional ignorance elevated to a religious virtue is the worst form of self-delusion that I know of.

You are wrong to call it intentional ignorance. It is intentional faith.

You guys don't seem to get it. Relativity allows for geocentricity, and if you don't understand that it is ignorance on your part.

truthman wrote:

Canuckster1127 wrote:Intentional ignorance elevated to a religious virtue is the worst form of self-delusion that I know of.

You are wrong to call it intentional ignorance. It is intentional faith.

You guys don't seem to get it. Relativity allows for geocentricity, and if you don't understand that it is ignorance on your part.

I'll have to plead ignorance on my part then. Because I don't understand physical geocentricity at all. I CAN understand what jlay said about figurative geocentricity. truthman, if you can explain how ANYTHING can allow for the earth not rotating, and revolving around the sun, I'd like to hear your explanation. The Earth rotates on its axis once every 24 hrs. (approx.), and the Earth makes one complete revolution around the sun once a year. God created both the Sun, and Earth. The Bible is inspired by God. So, how can this be possible :

We maintain that the Bible teaches us of an earth that neither rotates daily nor revolves yearly about the sun; that it is at rest with respect to the throne of him who called it into existence; and that hence it is absolutely at rest in the universe.

.

According to special relativity, any point of reference is valid. Einstein used the comparison of a person watching a train go by (fixed relative to the surface of the earth) versus a person riding on the train (fixed relative to the train). The speed of light will be the same for either one, but time and distance will vary, depending on your point of reference. However, either point of reference is valid.
Now, you can chose the centre of the earth, the centre of the Sun, or a passing meteor if you wish. It just makes the math more complicated if you choose the earth.
An exercise to illustrate: 2 people stand facing each other, hold hands and lean back on their heals and start going around and around. Now, who is going around the other? You can choose either one or a point in the middle as your point of reference.
Now, regarding the universe. What single point in the universe is standing still while all the rest is moving? We can't answer the question. So, pick a point in the universe, and make that your point of reference.
Now, accepting that God made the universe so that man could live and be born again as children of God, what is the centre of His focus?

Granted, there may be a problem with the exegesis of these guys, but it is not a simple cut and dried "they're wrong and ignorant" That is why I said it is a starting point for serious discussion.