Evidence for God from Science

Here is a list of Scriptures indicating that when a person is born again as a child of God, he receives the gift of eternal life.
If a person could be born again and then lose his salvation he would have to be unborn and lose eternal life. But, since eternal life is eternal it cannot be lost. If it only lasted 10 years for example it would only be 10 year life. (kind of like my term life insurance policy )

BORN AGAIN WITH ETERNAL LIFE

I.SINNERS ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD BECAUSE OF SIN.
A.Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
B.Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; …
C.Ephesians 2:1 ... who were dead in trespasses and sins;
D.Ephesians 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
E.Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh,...
II.SPIRITUALLY DEAD SINNERS MUST BE BORN AGAIN SPIRITUALLY TO LIVE.
A.John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
B.Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
C.Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
D.Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
E.John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
F.John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
III.THOSE BORN AGAIN ARE LITERAL, SPIRITUAL CHILDREN OF GOD.
A.John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
B.1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
IV.THOSE BORN AGAIN HAVE THE RIGHTEOUS, SINLESS, NATURE OF GOD.
A.1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
B.1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
C.1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
D.1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
E.1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not..
V.THOSE BORN AGAIN HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
A.1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
B.John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
C.John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
D.John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
E.John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
F.John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
G.John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
H.Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
I.John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
J.John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
K.John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
L.John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
M.Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
N.Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
O.Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
P.Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Q.Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
R.Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
S.1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
T.1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
U.1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Hey Truthman, what about Mark 3:29 and Luke 12:10 ? I would like to get your opinion on these two scriptures about blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Are these not warnings?

Hey, sinner..,
I would like you to look at the verses above and see how your view fits into them, first.

Quick question: Do you HAVE eternal life today?

Here' my opinion on this matter and thank you for moving to a new topic thread...

I like what Jesus says in John 10:27, 28, 29, 30 --

So the question should be - who hears his voice?

John 10:26 lays out the principle - those that don't believe - cannot hear and are not his.

Next, in John 10:27 Jesus makes another principle clear - those that hear - follow Him.

Believe (Faithing) begins at that - Ah-I get - understand moment - and produces those that follow. Those that do not - well were they ever really saved to begin with?

I am not OSAS but lean more to Finney's idea of true Converts and False converts. There are True Brethren and False Brethren the bible speaks about so it is reasonable and quite possible that some who say they were saved and fall away: one - never believed, two - never heard, three - never truly followed the Good Shepherd.

Those that truly believe, hear, and follow. It seems that such can never fall away because the Lord holds them dear. It would be impossible for such to fall away into perdition due to the nature of the work of the cross, the resurrection, and God more than able to keep his word (John 3:15,16, 21) and fulfill it. However, those that do not believe, God is not bound by his word to keep them, and they would fall away in due time for various reasons.

Since it is difficult for us to know who is and who ain't by mere looking at someone — then is it any wonder we are called to examine ourselves if we are really in the faith or not? Bear fruits of repentance, spur each other onto better works for Christ, etc and etc?

Those that know Christ, believe him, resulting in their following him, and hearing him. Changed by Him, learn to have him work thru them overcoming sins, and being transformed. Those who don't — well don't and never were saved in the actual sense of the word.

Conclusion in brief:

Believing is more than being limited to mere intellectual belief — persuasion. It is that Ah, I get it moment (persuasion) that actually changes ones direction of life with visible, tangible results, in diverse ways. We may not always see these changes but God knows. We do know if these changes are real in regards to ourselves and others can discern as well. Vast majority of Christians do not fall away... more on this point later.

Next, If mere intellectual belief is all that is required — then — yes people can fall away from that into perdition because they are not hearing, nor following Christ the good shepherd. They will fall into a lasting continuous state of sin because they view grace as the means to sin because, after all, they frist believed intellectually - no need for anything else to happen.

So, who would care about what 2 Peter 1:2-12 alludes too or the gospel freedom Jesus declared in John 8 that he came for. Such Freedom and change would be ignored, or taught as not important, or viewed as dead legalism. Therefore, just believe in the head — no change in the heart wrought by God , just sin that grace abounds. Yes, I can see why such fall away...

Maybe our doctrines are what cause some people to fall away — not Christ. If we are truly his, we'll hear and follow the good shepherd. Be on the path Hebrews chapter 11 and 12 speaks about.

I find it amazing for the very few that do fall away and those that are false brethren, we make such a big deal out of this, ignoring the vast majority who are his and hear and follow him. He keeps us in His hands - molding and shaping us daily.

Let us examine ourselves. Follow the Good shepherd and learn to hear his voice. God is more than able to keep his word. Have a little faith — not weak faith but a little faith in the Lord! He'll keep you, change you, get you thru… to the end...
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A very good presentation. I think we are "on the same page."
However, I think you have just explained a OSAS position, really.
So, what about the verses listed above and the fact of new birth as children of God with eternal life?
Would you say that you have been born of God and have eternal life?
If you do, can your eternal life end?

Again, I think we are placing too much emphasis on OUR side of salvation.

I understand belief is what is needed for salvation, but think about how many times our faith wavers? Is our salvation dependent upon our weakness? If that were the case we would lose our salvation countless times...our anger at God, our distrust of Him, our weakness woul dlead to our downfall.

Thankfully, God stands by His covenant far more than we do. Even in the OT we see this attribute of God, where He stands by His covenant even though the Hebrews strayed.

What a distant and uninvolved God we serve if our salvation rests upon us! And we should all tremble if that is the case.

zoegirl wrote:Again, I think we are placing too much emphasis on OUR side of salvation.

I understand belief is what is needed for salvation, but think about how many times our faith wavers? Is our salvation dependent upon our weakness? If that were the case we would lose our salvation countless times...our anger at God, our distrust of Him, our weakness woul dlead to our downfall.

Thankfully, God stands by His covenant far more than we do. Even in the OT we see this attribute of God, where He stands by His covenant even though the Hebrews strayed.

What a distant and uninvolved God we serve if our salvation rests upon us! And we should all tremble if that is the case.

Our salvation doesn't depend on us but our apostasy does.

truthman wrote:Hey, sinner..,
I would like you to look at the verses above and see how your view fits into them, first.

The scripture that you have taken the time to outline are great. I agree with what the verses have to say. But. the parable of the seeds being sown, have four examples of a person receiving the word.

truthman wrote:Quick question: Do you HAVE eternal life today?

I believe I have been made right before GOD, or righteous. If not for the blood of Christ Jesus, I would not be justified. I believe he (Jesus) was sent by GOD to die for our sins. He (Jesus) was raised from the grave, and now sits at the right hand of GOD. Just as Steven saw him/them before his death.

Now, truthman, can you explain the question about blaspheming the Holy Spirit? I am interested to see what you have to say about it.

BW
As far a John 10:29 I agree with the fact that Almight GOD is our protector and no one can snatch us from his hand. But, does that mean we are unable to jump out of his hand by your own free will? Does free will end when we except Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior? Or, more to the point, can we after receiving the free gift, return it or throw it away?

Please know that my intention is to learn, not to cause discord among my brothers and sisters in Christ. I respect everone's personal interpritation of scripture.

Truthman, I understand your argument, and there is no question that our Heavenly Father wishes us to have eternal life.
I do wonder, however, what you do with Scriptures like Heb 6:4,5,6.?

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseto their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here is a case of some one who arguabley was "saved", as he;
A) was once enlightened
B) Tasted the heavenly gift
C) shared in the holy spirit
D) tasted the goodness of Gods word
E) Tasted the goodness of the age to come
F) So if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance.

Even the question that they could " Fall Away " should give us pause.

This kinda reminds me of Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, as he admonished them for taking too much license (the opposite of legalism, which the Galatians had problems with). Paul tells them you have sexual realations with the wife of your father and are proud??? 1 Cor 5:1,2 Then notice what Paul says in 1 Cor 5:5 Is this not an example of bringing a brother back in line who has "lost it"?
I just think we need to be careful about saying, once you believe, you can do whatever you want... without fear. Why would Paul tell us to "Work out our salvation with fear and trembling"?

Sinner...

truthman wrote:
Quick question: Do you HAVE eternal life today?

I believe I have been made right before GOD, or righteous. If not for the blood of Christ Jesus, I would not be justified. I believe he (Jesus) was sent by GOD to die for our sins. He (Jesus) was raised from the grave, and now sits at the right hand of GOD. Just as Steven saw him/them before his death.

Now, truthman, can you explain the question about blaspheming the Holy Spirit? I am interested to see what you have to say about it.

You avoided answering the question. I rejoice in your confession of faith. We are brothers in Christ. According to God's word in the verses listed above, you must be able to say , "I HAVE eternal life" 1 John 5:13 Now that you have been born of God and have eternal life, there is absolutely no way you can be unborn of God and lose eternal life, because if you could, then you don't have eternal life. If you believe that it is possible to stop being a child of God, then you do not believe that you have eternal life and are rejecting the clear and obvious meaning of Scripture.

sinnerbybirth wrote:Hey Truthman, what about Mark 3:29 and Luke 12:10 ? I would like to get your opinion on these two scriptures about blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Are these not warnings?

Now, I will answer your question.

Mark 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. 23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? 24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. 28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

1. Jesus healed many sick people and cast out devils.
2. The scribes who did not believe in angels or the resurrection accused Him of casting out devils by the power of Beelzebub a supposed prince of devils.
3. Jesus told them it didn't make sense for Satan (not Beelzebub) to cast out Satan.
4. Jesus warned these UNBELIEVERS that they were in danger of eternal damnation because they were in danger or close to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit because they rejected the obvious truth that Jesus worked by the power of God and attributed it to Satan.
5. In Luke 12:10 and Matthew 12:32 Jesus made a distinction between speaking against the Son of man and blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
6. We know that both are equally God, so the unforgivable sin cannot be blasphemy of God.
7. The role of the Son of man was to die for ALL sin (John 1:29; 1 John 2:2; 2 Corinthians 5:19) and we know from Scripture that if a person rejects the Son of man as Saviour he faces eternal damnation.
9. The role of the Holy Spirit is to teach the truth and testify of the Son (John 14:26; John 15:26; John 16:14). When Jesus healed the sick and cast out devils the Holy Spirit was working in the minds of men teaching them the truth and testifying of the Son, and anyone receiving the Son received salvation from eternal damnation. However, anyone who rejected the truth and testimony of the Holy Spirit rejected their only way of salvation, the Son. To this day, anyone who rejects the testimony of the Holy Spirit and the truth going so far as to attributing the power of God to Satan rejects their only way of salvation and most surely faces eternal damnation.

One of Many wrote:Truthman, I understand your argument, and there is no question that our Heavenly Father wishes us to have eternal life.
I do wonder, however, what you do with Scriptures like Heb 6:4,5,6.?

Please see the last couple of pages on the discussion of the topic "Do Christians Apologize".

The Scriptures not only say that God wishes for us to have eternal life, but that He actually GIVES us eternal life. Eternal life is the gift that He promised before the world began (Titus 1:2) and we can know that we HAVE eternal life today. (1 John 5:13)

I can honestly say that I have been born of God and am now an eternal child of God and I know that I have eternal life.

I just think we need to be careful about saying, once you believe, you can do whatever you want... without fear. Why would Paul tell us to "Work out our salvation with fear and trembling"?

I agree. Far be it from me to say that you can do whatever you want...without fear.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Children of God who sin willfully do not need another sacrifice for sins because Jesus was enough, but they do need to realize the horrible thing that they have done. Every time a child of God sins he tramples on the Son of God counting the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing and does despite to the Spirit of Grace!! God's fiery indignation will judge our old sinful man (nature), and God will not stop until it is totally destroyed (devoured).
God's holy hatred of sin and his judgment of sin is truly to be feared by all.

truthman wrote:According to God's word in the verses listed above, you must be able to say , "I HAVE eternal life" 1 John 5:13 Now that you have been born of God and have eternal life, there is absolutely no way you can be unborn of God and lose eternal life, because if you could, then you don't have eternal life. If you believe that it is possible to stop being a child of God, then you do not believe that you have eternal life and are rejecting the clear and obvious meaning of Scripture.

Which is fine, so let's go back to what we were discussing and what Jac was saying. If someone believes and secures himself eternal life, lives a pious life, displays the fruits of the Spirit, and so on. Then one day and for whatever reason he stops believing, blasphemes the Holy Spirit, goes on a stealing and murdering spree. According to what you've said before, this man was never truly saved. So I ask again, where does that leave absolute assurance and OSAS? Jac says if you want to believe in absolute assurance then you must also believe such a man will still be saved regardless of his actions post believing. You must believe that if Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot had believed in their youth then went on to commit all the atrocities they had committed they too would still be saved. Either scripture says you can have absolute assurance and nothing, nothing you do can change that, or absolute assurance is non-existent. Those are the only 2 logical conclusions.

Byblos wrote:If someone believes and secures himself eternal life, lives a pious life, displays the fruits of the Spirit, and so on. Then one day and for whatever reason he stops believing, blasphemes the Holy Spirit, goes on a stealing and murdering spree. According to what you've said before, this man was never truly saved. So I ask again, where does that leave absolute assurance and OSAS?

I think first we need to ask if such a case is even possible. At least, I think it would help to seriously consider it. I think it was truthman that posted a bunch of commentaries on Hebrews 6:4-6 in another thread and one of them said something like: "We can speculate all day what would happen if the sun didn't rise tomorrow, but does that mean there's a chance it will actually happen?" Or something to that effect.

My point is, we can argue till Jesus comes back what would happen to a "truly saved" person that "fell away", but maybe we should first consider if it's even possible. (Or did you already do that? I don't know why, but I've been having problems following these discussions lately. Maybe this is all too far over my head right now.)