Evidence for God from Science

Based upon a quote from another thread.
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 719#p84719

Truthman said:
God's purpose for creating the world and humans was for us to become His eternal children.

Is that really why God created us?

warhoop wrote:Based upon a quote from another thread.
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 719#p84719

Truthman said:
God's purpose for creating the world and humans was for us to become His eternal children.

Is that really why God created us?

Why love at all? What's the point?

I am pretty sure the answer isn't given anywhere in the Bible. Theologians tend to appeal to some extremely vague and ambiguous passages to answer the question.

For example, the author of gotquestions.org cites:

Revelation 4:11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”

So, from this, he deduces, humans were created for God's pleasure. But of course, this isn't said anywhere in the text. Just because God is worthy of receiving glory and honor does not mean that was His purpose in creating the world. My opinion is that we are not capable of comprehending the purpose yet.

Actually the answer is given in Isaiah.. We are created for His glory..

Isaiah 43:1-7 (New International Version)

1 But now, this is what the LORD says—
he who created you, O Jacob,
he who formed you, O Israel:
"Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have summoned you by name; you are mine.

2 When you pass through the waters,
I will be with you;
and when you pass through the rivers,
they will not sweep over you.
When you walk through the fire,
you will not be burned;
the flames will not set you ablaze.

3 For I am the LORD, your God,
the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
I give Egypt for your ransom,
Cush [a] and Seba in your stead.

4 Since you are precious and honored in my sight,
and because I love you,
I will give men in exchange for you,
and people in exchange for your life.

5 Do not be afraid, for I am with you;
I will bring your children from the east
and gather you from the west.

6 I will say to the north, 'Give them up!'
and to the south, 'Do not hold them back.'
Bring my sons from afar
and my daughters from the ends of the earth-

7 everyone who is called by my name,
whom I created for my glory,
whom I formed and made."

The answer for "Why" is always "because". All though for most people that is probably not the most acceptable of answers. Why do furniture craftspersons make chairs? Is it for the money? To give to someone? or simply for a seat? Maybe the answer to that can also be "because that's what they do" Its a unsatisfying answer so you probably need a answer with more explanation, I know I do.

Kristoffer wrote:The answer for "Why" is always "because". All though for most people that is probably not the most acceptable of answers. Why do furniture craftspersons make chairs? Is it for the money? To give to someone? or simply for a seat? Maybe the answer to that can also be "because that's what they do" Its a unsatisfying answer so you probably need a answer with more explanation, I know I do.

Or maybe the craftsman creates out of love? The Bible is very clear that God created us and our world out of love.. On top of that he sacrificed his own son for our sins. Because that is what he does? No.. Out of love. John 3:16

Gman wrote: Or maybe the craftsman creates out of love?

Almost the reason I Garden, I really Love the result. Despite frost and cold a bæutiful garden can really brighten your days.

I agree. This is the purpose.

Gman wrote:Actually the answer is given in Isaiah.. We are created for His glory..

Isaiah 43:1-7 (New International Version)

1 But now, this is what the LORD says—
he who created you, O Jacob,
he who formed you, O Israel:
"Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have summoned you by name; you are mine.

2 When you pass through the waters,
I will be with you;
and when you pass through the rivers,
they will not sweep over you.
When you walk through the fire,
you will not be burned;
the flames will not set you ablaze.

3 For I am the LORD, your God,
the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
I give Egypt for your ransom,
Cush [a] and Seba in your stead.

4 Since you are precious and honored in my sight,
and because I love you,
I will give men in exchange for you,
and people in exchange for your life.

5 Do not be afraid, for I am with you;
I will bring your children from the east
and gather you from the west.

6 I will say to the north, 'Give them up!'
and to the south, 'Do not hold them back.'
Bring my sons from afar
and my daughters from the ends of the earth-

7 everyone who is called by my name,
whom I created for my glory,
whom I formed and made."

And this is a possible outcome, but not the purpose.

Truthman said:
God's purpose for creating the world and humans was for us to become His eternal children.

So if this is an accurate supposition: we were created for God's glory which can result in our becoming His eternal children as a result of His love, what impact, if any, does that have on our view of creation?

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

This passage gives us the clear answer.
1. This was God's choice before He made the world. v. 4
2. That we should be holy, blameless, and loved by Him. v. 4
3. Predestinated to receive full inheritance (adoption) as children of God by and in Jesus Christ. v. 5-7
4. This is the revelation of the mystery of God's will (purpose) to His good pleasure. v. 9
5. God's management (dispensation) of all time has been to accomplish this gathering of many children in one: Christ in whom we obtain the inheritance. v. 10-11
6. That those who trust in Christ bring due praise to the glory of God. v. 12.

Of course, there is a lot of other Scriptures that go along with this such as:

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I need to repair my car. I don't own the tool I need to make the repair. I then create the tool need to make the repair. Did I create the tool for the sake of having it in my toolbox?

1. God needs nothing. He never has, He never can, He never will.
2. God always knows the end from the beginning and everything in between in perfect and complete detail. He makes no mistakes and there are no surprises to Him.
3. God does everything on purpose.

truthman wrote:1. God needs nothing. He never has, He never can, He never will.
2. God always knows the end from the beginning and everything in between in perfect and complete detail. He makes no mistakes and there are no surprises to Him.
3. God does everything on purpose.

I guess going from point 2, that means he never "changes his mind" but...it does say he does at one point in the old testement, it could of been several...i haven't read it that thoroughly yet I am kind of taking it nice and slowly.

Because God knows and has known every detail about everything from the beginning, He cannot change His mind like we do. When He changes His mind it is part of the original plan; it is not an admission that the first direction was wrong, but is a matter of proper timing of change in direction.

warhoop wrote:I need to repair my car. I don't own the tool I need to make the repair. I then create the tool need to make the repair. Did I create the tool for the sake of having it in my toolbox?

Please allow me to rephrase.

I desire to repair my car. The tool that would best accomplish this task does not exist and so I create said tool. Did I create the tool for the sake of having it in my box?

Rhetorical? Most likely. But if you believe God's only purpose for creating us was so we could hang out in heaven, then you should answer the question.

William Lane Craig answers an e-mail every week on his website, and the last question sort of relates to this (it relates to the question of hell as well to a small degree, which has been kicked around here a lot). I thought it was an interesting answer, although he doesn't provide much Scripture to back up his point. Craig says we were created for our own benefit

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/Pag ... me=q_and_a

Of course, you can't ignore the verses that say that we were created for his glory.