Evidence for God from Science

I was considering cutting this out of my bible, it is so crazies.(instead im going to heavily mark it with notations) Why didn't this insanity get removed when they was deciding on the canon? Although I can see some interesting metaphors for Rome (seven headed dragon=seven hills which Rome was built on) and Nero (666 is a code for nero)

would you feel the bible was incomplete without this? What exactly does it add?

Kristoffer, I'm glad you're reading the bible! But, I get the impression from quite a few of your posts that you are still heavily influenced by all the anti-christian "literature" you have read in the past.

Revelation is a very literary work, full of drama and symbolism (the judgment in it is scary and difficult, sure), but most of all, hope. Do you not want to see all the suffering and evil of this world gone some day? The bible teaches that Messiah will come and rule. Since Christ didn't stay before, He promised to return. Why wouldn't there be included a book of God's revealed word regarding the time of Christ's return?

Just because the book is written in a mysterious way and not to your taste, doesn't mean it should've been left out. You should seek to understand it more, and understand why it is in the bible, instead of writing it off and insulting if right off-the-bat. If you have specific questions, too, it might be easier to respond with more information.

Kristopher, try to read the Message/Remix Bible by Patterson and see if it clears up the language a bit. Afterward, you may try reading the whole "Left Behind" series by Jenkins and LeHaye. It puts Revelation into today and what it could actually be like in modern times.

Kris,

I'm curious how you concluded that those were metaphors? Not saying they aren't. But I'd like to know how you arrived at that conclusion.

I arrived at my conclusion by simply reading it, looking for it. Finding out what scholars think. Although there are apparently many opinions about show name is worth 666. I think it is safe to just ignore the whole so called "revelation" as if it were a non-canon book, because lets face it, the world hasn't ended just yet so what's the big worry? I kind of have Hope for the future you know, rather than thinking the disgusting idea that we are all doomed.

I know how a "eternity" of nothingness sounds, but when I reach oblivion it will be just like before I was born. I was dead for billions of years before I was born. I would like to get something cleared up, some places in the bible are very certain about there being a "resurrection", but in other places it is made out that death has a kind of finality. I would agree with the death is final thing, that is a more realistic message that I can believe in and it doesn't sap any hope I have. Although if you do not believe me and think it must be a message from Satan, then you better read what Satan wrote in the bible.

The revelation does talk about the resurrection event doesn't it? That is what it seems to be talking about at a point...Or at least it mentions new heavens and new earth. But what if this was included by mistake? How do you know it wasn't, I will not simply believe it unless there is some kind of proof that makes certain that it is worth trusting, if you do not think it is the ravings of a mad man then just say...

Kristoffer wrote:I arrived at my conclusion by simply reading it, looking for it. Finding out what scholars think. Although there are apparently many opinions about show name is worth 666. I think it is safe to just ignore the whole so called "revelation" as if it were a non-canon book, because lets face it, the world hasn't ended just yet so what's the big worry? I kind of have Hope for the future you know, rather than thinking the disgusting idea that we are all doomed.

Kristoffer have you noticed that the book of revelation is the only book that blesses you when you read it? ( revelation 1:3) how can you ignore it? why dont you do some research? and it really isnt safe to ignore it as it is an integral part of our belief...this is what we christians are/have waiting for..its impossible to take it out. Kristoffer you said "because lets face it, the world hasn't ended just yet so what's the big worry?" but thats the sole reason we have to read it and study it ! why would we read it after it already happen ..it wouldnt have the same value that it holds now to us.

Kristoffer wrote:I arrived at my conclusion by simply reading it, looking for it. Finding out what scholars think. Although there are apparently many opinions about show name is worth 666. I think it is safe to just ignore the whole so called "revelation" as if it were a non-canon book, because lets face it, the world hasn't ended just yet so what's the big worry? I kind of have Hope for the future you know, rather than thinking the disgusting idea that we are all doomed.

Kristoffer, you obviously have not looked into this much at all, from a "scholarly" perspective. Would you please give some Christian scholars a break? I don't mean ones that have only private blogs, lol. I mean ones at major universities, if you're so worried about credentials. There are liberal scholars who take the book seriously, even if I don't agree on their interpretations or even on who the author is (to say it's not John either stretches things or makes the author kind-of a liar). And there's a whole lot more to the book than the interpretation of 666! You also can't understand Revelation apart from the rest of the bible, either, so simply reading it by itself is not very useful.

Everything you post on the board just oozes with distrust of people of faith, as if, for some reason, we aren't interested in truth. That we can't think about and test our own writings. Why don't you give people of faith some benefit of the doubt? I don't want to be deluded, I want to know the truth. There is no point in living in delusion. It was finally because I didn't want to reject truth any longer that I was able to see. I'm not saying there isn't truth that people can see aside from Christ - that's not what I mean. But to be able to understand more, the whole truth, you need Christ to help (since He is truth). If He led you here, then why do you keep fighting Him?

The revelation does talk about the resurrection event doesn't it? That is what it seems to be talking about at a point...Or at least it mentions new heavens and new earth. But what if this was included by mistake? How do you know it wasn't, I will not simply believe it unless there is some kind of proof that makes certain that it is worth trusting, if you do not think it is the ravings of a mad man then just say...

There's much in the bible about resurrection! You keep saying you read the bible, but I'm guessing right about now that you're not getting much out of it, or you're only paying attention to the "juicy" parts - you've posted on that before: 666, concubines, adultery - those are the things you post about! Job is the oldest book in the bible, and God gave him insight about our bodily resurrection (19:25-17): "I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God; I myself will see him with my own eyes--I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!" So you have the oldest book revealing God's will about resurrection, and the most recent (Revelation) affirming it.

Jesus Himself talked about it quite a bit. He was the firstfruits of this type of resurrection, having a glorified body. Jesus gave us proof that God could raise the dead when He made Lazarus alive again in John 11:1-43. Jesus talks of the resurrection in Matthew 24:31 - I would read the whole chapter for the context and to see how it relates to Revelation. All of 1 Corinthians 15 is relevant to the resurrection, Christ's and the believer's. Also 1Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:3.

I arrived at my conclusion by simply reading it, looking for it. Finding out what scholars think. Although there are apparently many opinions about show name is worth 666. I think it is safe to just ignore the whole so called "revelation" as if it were a non-canon book, because lets face it, the world hasn't ended just yet so what's the big worry? I kind of have Hope for the future you know, rather than thinking the disgusting idea that we are all doomed.

The revelation does talk about the resurrection event doesn't it? That is what it seems to be talking about at a point...Or at least it mentions new heavens and new earth. But what if this was included by mistake? How do you know it wasn't, I will not simply believe it unless there is some kind of proof that makes certain that it is worth trusting, if you do not think it is the ravings of a mad man then just say...

Mistake? Have you studied how and why we have the canon? Revelation is an amazing book, but I wouldn't recommend it for an unbeliever. The only question that matters is this. Is Jesus who He says He is as recorded in the scriptures? There is ample evidence to know that the resurrection of Jesus is a fact. More than enough evidence to know that the bible is supernaturally inspired (prophecies), and preserved for us to this day. A person is either unwilling to examine the evidence and remain ignorant, or is unwilling to trust what is revealed in truth. (rebellion) The gospel of John was written for this very reason. (John 20:31) If you don't accept the above, why would you expect Revelation to make any sense to you? It's like trying to study advanced Calculus, when you don't even know your multiplication tables. If you are willing to set aside your stubborness, submit your mind, and read the Gospel of John, then you will have everything you need to know to pass from condemnation to life. You either will or you won't. You can read John cover to cover 100 times, but if you will not lay aside your pride then it is futile. Will you?

I would agree with the death is final thing, that is a more realistic message that I can believe in and it doesn't sap any hope I have.

Reality isn't dependent on your acceptance of it, or your capacity to gauge it as 'realistic.'

"Kristoffer"

because lets face it, the world hasn't ended just yet so what's the big worry? I kind of have Hope for the future you know, rather than thinking the disgusting idea that we are all doomed.

The revelation does talk about the resurrection event doesn't it? That is what it seems to be talking about at a point...Or at least it mentions new heavens and new earth.

Hi Kristoffer,
Most Christians have a somewhat literal interpretation of "End of the world" meaning our physical world!
The end refers to Christianity's spiritual world, and the City of there faith in which they abide will also be laid waste!
There is a New City, "The New Jerusalem" that has come down from Heaven. There is coming the end of present belief and the resurrection of belief with ones new spiritual understanding.

Revelation to John is THE MOST IMPORTANT SCRIPTURE revealing the symbolisms and true meaning of Yeshua's teachings.


“For to him who has will more be given,” he told them, “and he will have great plenty; but from him who has not, even the little he has will be taken away.” That is why I use these illustrations, so people will hear and see but not understand.”

A lot of people (I'd say 99%) are afraid of truth. They read it or hear it, and because it doesn't sound pretty they reject it. It's too much for them to handle. It's the same with the Illuminati bloodlines. Many people will not accept that they are in control of the planet, or that they even exist. Satan worshipers are running the show, and that is why the whole world is a complete mess, it's not how it is by accident as most people seem to believe. So you should be thankful that the Bible includes the book of revelation, as I'm sure Jesus would not want his followers to be ignorant on important matters.

ocarina_boy wrote:A lot of people (I'd say 99%) are afraid of truth. They read it or hear it, and because it doesn't sound pretty they reject it. It's too much for them to handle. It's the same with the Illuminati bloodlines. Many people will not accept that they are in control of the planet, or that they even exist. Satan worshipers are running the show, and that is why the whole world is a complete mess, it's not how it is by accident as most people seem to believe. So you should be thankful that the Bible includes the book of revelation, as I'm sure Jesus would not want his followers to be ignorant on important matters.

Yes.. A lot of it also comes from studying the book of Daniel. Once you get that down, then Revelation makes more sense..