The complexity of life, Proof of God?
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:15 pm
Hey Kristoffer, I hope you don't mind, but I have been wanting to dialogue with you and so since the other evolution thread became somewhat of a battle ground, I was hoping you and I could talk on a new thread, so I quoted your post.Kristoffer wrote:so that god could play Epic Real time strategy against satin.CeT-To wrote:sorry to butt in the convo but if i may ask a question.. Why were dinasaurs created?
But seriously, they just evolved to Survive, all things Evolve to survive better and pass on genes. Basically life Revolves around a molecule. A molecule that has the sole purpose of copying itself, over and over again. That is what the facts point to anyway, I would really love to find some cold hard evidence that pointed to god and not just to evolution, but so far I have nothing. The mere desire does not make it true, but it is a spur to keep searching.
To start with your first one, I would rather it be an RPG than and RTS
but eh. (and it isn't satin.... it's satan... not that anyone cares, as he is a jerk)Well to start evolution is not the process in which things change just to survive. The basic premise of evolution is only the strong survive in a world of random mutations called decent with modification. Now so far as life revolving around a molecule and it coping itself, you must ask yourself this, how and why is that molecule alive to begin with, and furthermore, how does it know to duplicate itself? In essence all we are made of is protons, neutrons, and electrons. As is everything in the universe. So why are ours any better? Why are ours different, or in other words, why are the subatomic particles that comprise us alive, and yet others are not? Why does a bullet to the brain stop them from living, and yet one to the foot may not? That is my basic question to you. As without that evolution could not have happened to begin with. But let's continue on for now.
The basic structure of life is the DNA and RNA structures. The are the building blocks of life and without them we would not be here talking about this. Now in order to make my points better I am going to include an image.
[The below picture is from //www.drpeterjdadamo.com/wiki/wiki.pl?act ... _%28DNA%29 ]
Now take a look at the above image. It details in a chemical structure the DNA and RNA. First let me break down each Nitrogen base for easy reference. They are Purines and Pyrimidines. The Purines are Adenine
and Guanine 
and are identified by by the rings of 5 carbon and 4 nitrogen. I put the pics of each snipped from above next to them for you to see. They are accompanied by and attached to corresponding nitrogen bases called Pyrimidines. They are as follows, Cytosine 
Thymine and Uracil 
(the Uracil replaces the Thymine in RNA) and they have 4 carbon and 2 nitrogen.Now the Purines are connected to the Pyrimidines by a hydrogen bond and they have a sugar phosphate back bone, which is the deoxyribose part of DNA and the ribose part of RNA. The complex structures you see above are, in essence, nothing more than carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, and phosphorus. They are carefully combined through chemical reactions to build DNA. Each chemical binds to the other in a seemingly artistic fashion to form this building block, without aid, or help, from any intelligent source... or do they? Why would they form in such a way? Why would sugar phosphate groups bind with nitrogen bases that are paired up as base pairs (I am putting this in a simple way, it is really more complex than that), and form the double helix of DNA? Why would these structures come together? And better yet, why would they then be the instructions for all of the cells in our bodies on how they should operate? Why would they be alive? What would prompt this? I have included the picture and what I have to show you the basic, very basic complexity of our base building blocks of life. Without DNA and RNA, life isn't possible. Period.
Okay, so how does this tie into evolution? Look at the above structures of DNA and RNA, look at the complexity they have, look at how they formed. Now ask yourself this, how could this have evolved? You may think this has nothing to do with evolution, and yet it does. Evolution is dependent on random mutations, and those happen via the copying of DNA and RNA during cell division (though mutations can also happen from other sources, but let's keep it basic for now
) So DNA is vital to evolution. Now since DNA is our genetic "make up" so to speak, it determines everything about us. Our eye color, hair color, how many arms and legs we have.... you get the picture. So when DNA mutates, the organism will most likely change. Now what are the chances that the change (mutation) will be for the better? And will it survive if the mutation is negative? Let me quote you a paragraph from the book "More Than A Theory" by Hugh Ross:To put it in perspective bad mutations vs good 10,000:1 and 1,000,000:1 now what percent is that for each. 0.0001% and 0.000001% chance that a mutation would be beneficial. So to put it bluntly, it isn't very likely. Now this IS NOT in-depth, this is just the surface. There is much more to statistics, but I don't have time to go into them right now.Hugh Ross wrote: Geneticists observe that deleterious mutations outnumber beneficial mutations by at least as much as ten thousand to one, and in some species by as much as ten million to one. Neutral or slightly deleterious mutations vastly outnumber both beneficial and clearly deleterious mutations. However, because the fraction of the genome acknowledged as functional is rapidly increasing (see chapter 13, pp. 200-202), the number of neutral mutations is dropping while the quantity of recognized deleterious mutations is rising.
Back to my point and why I put the pics in to begin with. Kristoffer, I want you to think about this. Look at the DNA and RNA, what it is comprised of, what it needs to work properly, and how it formed and came to life to begin with. That is why I went into the detail that I did. Do you really think that something as complex as DNA can form on it's own? Now you may point to things that are complex and not alive and say they could form on their own, but DNA is more than just chemicals, it is a blue print. It tells the cells how to behave and act, no other chemical composition is like that. The core of the earth does not tell it how to behave, the earth does not "read" the core and then move according to a certain programing. Yet that is how the Cell works. I am only touching the surface, there is much much more to come.
I am hoping that some one else *coughgmanorzoegirlcough* will come on and add to this, and correct me where I am wrong, but I felt the need to post this, I think it is high time to expose you to everything scientific when it comes to why we believe, and I think showing how unlikely life from non life is, and how unlikely evolution is, is the first step in helping you see God and all He has done. Friend I am doing this for you, because I want some day to see you in the Kingdom of heaven.
Now my post is not that good, I am tired and a bit light headed, and I have only recently dusted off my old notes, but give me time and I will do more. But for now, I hope this gets you thinking and looking into things. Do not forget the articles on the main site, and consider reading some of the books. However I am willing to do what it takes to show you the amazing workings of the Hands of God.
) then that protons, neutrons, and electrons would all have the exact right charge and size to form a cohesive universe in which life can prosper. Then you have to have the right amount of matter to form galaxies and planets that are big enough, but not too big, to hold an atmosphere that will support life, or encourage the growth of life, and then atoms must form together into proteins, that then must come to life on their own, and not die off instantly. So yeah.... what is the percent chance of all of that happening in our universe? Seriously, our very violent universe, with super novas and quasars going off constantly and planets are daily being bombarded by radiation and asteroids... so yeah... you have more of a chance of hitting a target that is 50,000 miles away, with a hand gun.
we can think! That in of itself is amazing). What's more is we are a compilation of a bunch of living cells working in unison to continue our lives, yet each cell is alive on it's own, and if our brain dies so do they. We are a bunch of living organisms as one giant living organism on a highly privileged planet.
I hope you stick around the board Phantom!
