Evidence for God from Science

derrick09 wrote:This question has to do with salvation and assurance of salvation. To know that we are truly saved are we supposed to sense or feel the Holy Spirit within us? Also do we have to naturally or almost effortlessly produce the fruits of the spirit or good works, and if so does the amount that we produce matter? Because from my experience thus far, in a way at times I guess you can say I've felt the Holy Spirit in me and in a relative sense I produce good works or fruit of the spirit, I"m not perfect at it nor can I really say that I produce a lot of it or produce as much as I want, but because these areas seem to be gray for me currently how can I make them more black and white? God bless guys, thanks.

Well honestly, it is my belief that we cannot "know" we are saved because while we are in this life, we are still working our our own salvation with fear and trembling. Our salvation is not yet complete.

Our salvation is not yet complete.

CeT-To wrote:Yes i must admit i also have trouble making up my mind on this matter too....i mean these 3 verses make me wonder if im doing enough...Matthew 7:21-23

From AMG Word Studies concerning:

G4991

σωτηρία
sōtēría; gen. sōtērías, fem. noun from sōtḗr (G4990), a savior, deliverer. Safety, deliverance, preservation from danger or destruction.

(I) Particularly and generally: deliverance from danger (Heb11:7; Sept.: Exo14:13; 2Ch20:17); deliverance from slavery (Act7:25); with apó (G575), from (Sept.: 2Sa15:14); with ek (G1537), from enemies (Luk1:71); kéras (G2768), a horn of salvation, meaning a strong deliverer (Luk1:69). Hence generally, meaning welfare, prosperity (Php1:19; Sept.: Gen28:21; Gen44:17; Pro11:14; Jer3:23; Hab3:13; Isa49:8). By implication victory (Rev7:10; Rev12:10; Rev19:1; Sept.: 1Sa14:45; 2Sa19:2; 2Ki5:1). In the OT, salvation can mean deliverance from present danger or trouble, or more especially, from defeat in battle (Sept.: Exo15:2; 1Sa10:19; Job30:15; Pro11:14). However, it is also deliverance from the future condemnation that Jehovah would rightly bring upon Israel (Psa53:6; Isa35:4). Such salvation can also have eschatological connotations (Isa25:9; Isa45:17; Isa46:13; Isa49:6).

(II) In the NT, salvation is deliverance from sin and its spiritual consequences, involving an attachment to the body of Christ, and admission to eternal life with blessedness in the kingdom of Christ (Luk1:77; Luk19:9; Joh4:22; Act16:17; Rom1:16; Rom10:1, Rom10:10; 2Co7:10; Php1:28; 1Th5:8-9; 2Th2:13; 2Ti2:10; 2Ti3:15; Heb1:14; Heb2:3, Heb2:10; Heb5:9; Heb6:9; Heb9:28; 1Pe1:5, 1Pe1:9-10; Jud1:3, salvation by a Messiah; Act4:12 where the def. art. is used; Act13:26; Rom11:11; Rom13:11; 2Co1:6; Eph1:13; Php2:12). Metonymically it means a source or bringer of salvation, Savior (Act13:47 quoted from Isa49:6).

(III) The concept of God as the Savior of the individual finds expression throughout the OT (Job5:15; Job22:29; Job26:2; Psa72:4, Psa72:13; Psa109:31; Pro20:22). Jehovah becomes the Savior of the meek (Psa76:9; Psa149:4 [cf. Job22:29]), and of all that put their trust in Him (Psa86:2 [cf. Psa88:1]). David wrote, "This poor man cried, and the Lord heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles" (Psa34:6). Jehovah saves the upright (Psa37:39-40), and such as be of a contrite spirit (Psa34:18). He hears the cry of them that fear Him and fulfills their desire (Psa 145:19).

This salvation was deliverance not only from the spiritual consequences of sin but from the pollution of sin itself. Such an awareness of the necessity of personal, inner cleansing is expressed in Psa5 1:10, "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy Holy Spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit" (Psa51:10-12). Here the salvation for which the Psalmist prays includes deliverance from sin as one of its elements (Psa39:8; Psa79:9; Psa130:7-8). The prophets Jeremiah and Ezekiel give the clearest expression to the idea of salvation as deliverance from sin (Jer31:31-34 [cf. Jer33:8]; Eze36:25-29 [cf. Eze37:28]).

(IV) The crown of this personal salvation is reached in the doctrine of the resurrection. Since the realm of the dead was under God's control, the righteous who had died in distress might still hope after death to see the salvation of God. This hope, which appears in sporadic utterances in Psa49:15; Psa73:24-25, finds a classic expression in Job19:25-27, "I know that my redeemer liveth." This culminates in the doctrine of individual resurrection, which is found in Isa26:18, and repeated in Dan12:1-3.

(V) Thus in the OT we have salvation meaning: (1) Deliverance from present danger or trouble especially from defeat in battle. (2) A preliminary foretaste by the righteous, after death, of the enjoyment of the age to come. It is into a world such as this with concepts of salvation as explained that the Lord Jesus came with His gospel of salvation.

(VI) In the teachings of Jesus the word salvation (sōtēría) is only twice used by Him-in the conversation with Zacchaeus (Luk19:9) and in the interview with the woman of Samaria (Joh4:22).

According to Jesus, to have salvation was to have the kingdom of God within the individual (Luk17:20-21). Salvation was thus treated as a present experience. To the sinful woman in the house of Simon, He declares that her faith hath saved her and bids her go in peace (Luk7:50). To Zacchaeus He says, "This day is salvation come to this house" (Luk19:9).

Jesus taught that when one possesses His salvation, or eternal life, death brings no interruption in the communion of the individual with God. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are even now enjoying the resurrection life with God (Luk20:37-38); Lazarus passed at once from this world into Abraham's bosom (Luk16:22); and to the dying thief on the cross the promise is made that, on that same day, he would be with his Master in paradise (Luk23:43).

(VII) Salvation, especially as viewed by Paul, is also an eschatological conception. Those Christians who are alive when the rapture occurs, along with the "dead in Christ," will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1Th4:17) and freed from the last trace of the flesh which had hitherto hindered them (Rom8:23; 1Co15:50-52) and shall enter into the joys of His heavenly kingdom. It is this glorious experience-still in the future-to which Paul refers when he uses salvation as an eschatological term (Rom13:11).

(VIII) But salvation is not merely deliverance from future punishment; it includes also freedom from sin as a present power. Indeed, it is this present deliverance which alone makes the future possible. Through union with Christ, the believer has become a new creature (2Co5:17). He has died to sin (Rom6:2), crucified the flesh with the passions and the lusts thereof (Gal5:24), and entered upon a new spiritual life of righteousness, peace, and joy (Rom14:17). He is a saved man (Rom8:24; 1Co1:18; 2Co2:15), reconciled to God (Rom5:1), claiming and receiving the privileges of a son (Rom8:14-15). He rejoices in daily experiences of a Father's grace, knowing how to glory even in tribulations (Rom5:3), since he has learned that all things work together for good to them that love God (Rom8:28). He continues to have his conflict with sin, but as he once felt himself to be the slave of the flesh, sold unto sin (Rom7:14), now he knows himself to be its master. The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made him free from the law of sin and of death (Rom8:2). And the day is coming when, through the transformation of his body, he shall be freed from whatever defiling contact with sin still remains (Rom8:23).

(IX) In the Gospel of John and in 1 John, salvation is a present eschatological and final eschatological experience (Joh3:15-16, Joh3:36; Joh5:24; Joh6:47; Joh10:28; Joh17:2; 1Jn2:18, 1Jn2:28; 1Jn3:2; 1Jn4:17 [cf. Joh5:28; Joh6:44, Joh6:54; Joh21:22]). The éschaton has begun, it has been inaugurated and eternal life is already the possession of all who believe on Christ. He that hears Christ's word and believes Him that sent Him, "hath eternal life and turneth not into judgment, but hath passed out of death unto life" (a.t. [Joh5:24 [cf. Joh3:36; Joh5:39-40; 1Jn4:15; 1Jn5:12]). Christ is represented as the bread of life (Joh6:48), of which, if a man eat, he shall live forever (Joh6:51). He is the resurrection and life (Joh11:25), and whosoever believes on Him shall never die (Joh11:26 [cf. also the passages which speak of regeneration {e.g., Joh3:3; 1Jn3:9; 1Jn5:1}]).

Final (or consummated) eschatological salvation is connected with the redemption of the universe. Whatever is hopelessly evil-whether in nature, man, or spirit-shall at last be brought under Christ's feet. No foe will remain to dispute the authority of Christ or mar the glories of His eternal kingdom. The last enemy to be destroyed is death (1Co15:26). Not until then will Christ's saving work be finished, and He restore to the Father the power given to Him, that in the redeemed universe God may be all in all (1Co15:28). In order for saved man to live in a congruous environment, the Lord will create a new earth and a new heaven, in which he will live in peace and righteousness (Rom8:19-23; Rev21:1).

Syn.: lútrōsis (G3085), a ransoming, redemption; apolútrōsis (G629), salvation, ransom in full; sōtḗrion (G4992), the means of salvation.
Ant.: apṓleia (G684), perdition, loss; katastrophḗ (G2692), destruction; ólethros (G3639), ruin; phthorá (G5356), corruption.

Your first question was, "What are your beliefs about the Virgin Mary--most particularly do you pray to her?"

We believe that the Virgin Mary is the Mother of God. Through her He Who was God before the ages took on our human nature without relinquishing His divine nature or confusing or "meshing" it with the human nature in any way. The Mother of God is often referred to as the "New Eve," for she said "yes" to God whereas the first Eve said "no." We believe that the Mother of God was sinless of her own free will, that she remains ever-virgin, and that she is the "living tabernacle" of God inasmuch as her womb, as one hymn states, becomes "more spacious than the heavens" by carrying within it the Savior of the world, Jesus Christ.

EVER-VIRGIN

From the very early years of the Church, Mary was called not only Virgin, but Ever-Virgin. She was seen as never having had a sexual union with Joseph, before or after the birth of Christ. Ezekiel 44:1-2 is a passage often referred to by the early Fathers in this regard. It states: "Then He brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary which faces toward the east, but it was shut. And the Lord said to me, 'This gate shall be shut; it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter by it, because the Lord God of Israel has entered by it; therefore it shall be shut.'"

In traditional interpretation of this passage, Mary is the temple and Christ is the Prince of Peace. The gate mentioned is seen as a picture of Christ's passage through the door of Mary's womb. You might not find that interpretation in some of today's commentaries, but it was held by the great majority of early Church Fathers, as well as many of the Reformation leaders.

At this point, however, a very valid question can be raised. If she remained a virgin, why does the Gospel of Matthew tell us that Joseph knew not his wife until after Christ was born (Matthew 1:25)?

From a Scriptural standpoint, the presence of the phrase "until she had brought forth her firstborn Son," does not automatically mean that Joseph must have known her afterward. This is because in both Greek and Hebrew the word 'until' or 'to' can have several different meanings. We find it in II Samuel 6:23: "Michal, daughter of Saul, had not child to (until) the day of her death." It is used again in Matthew 28:20 where the risen Christ says "Lo, I am with you always, even to (until) the end of the world." And in Deuteronomy 34:6 we read "Moses was buried in a valley in the land of Moab, but no one knows his grave to (until) this day."

Obviously the use of the word in these passages does not imply that Michal had a child after her death, that Christ will depart at the end of the world, or that Moses' burial place was discovered the day Deuteronomy 34:6 was written. By the same token, the word 'until' in Matthew 1:25 does not mean that Joseph and Mary began a sexual union after Christ was born. Such a teaching is found nowhere in Scripture and is contrary to the consistent voice of the entire early Church.

But doesn't the Bible also mention other brothers and sisters of Christ? Who are they and where did they come from?

For one thing, they are never directly called the sons and daughters of Mary and Joseph. In several passages the Bible speaks of the children or relatives as "brothers." Abraham and Lot are called brothers, although Lot was actually Abraham's nephew. And Jacob and Laban are called brothers, even though Jacob was the son of Rebecca, Laban's sister.

Scripture is therefore silent concerning the nature of this relationship between Christ and these brothers and sisters. Early Fathers differed slightly in their understanding of what the terms meant. Some, such as Saint Ambrose, believed that they were children of a former marriage between Joseph and a wife who died prior to Matthew chapter 1. Others taught that they were cousins. But on one point, almost everyone is in agreement: Mary and Joseph had no sexual union whatsoever, before or after the birth of Christ.

I must say in all candor that had my betrothed been the woman chosen by the Father to bear His eternal Son in the flesh, my view of her would have been utterly transformed and my honor for her infinitely heightened. Imagine being betrothed to the Mother of God. It was so with Joseph. His betrothed was ever-virgin.

JamesScott, I think it is important for people here to be aware of some of the teachings that you are promoting, so they can make their own decisions about what you are saying.

We believe that the Virgin Mary is the Mother of God. Through her He Who was God before the ages took on our human nature without relinquishing His divine nature or confusing or "meshing" it with the human nature in any way. The Mother of God is often referred to as the "New Eve," for she said "yes" to God whereas the first Eve said "no." We believe that the Mother of God was sinless of her own free will, that she remains ever-virgin, and that she is the "living tabernacle" of God inasmuch as her womb, as one hymn states, becomes "more spacious than the heavens" by carrying within it the Savior of the world, Jesus Christ.

From the very early years of the Church, Mary was called not only Virgin, but Ever-Virgin. She was seen as never having had a sexual union with Joseph, before or after the birth of Christ. Ezekiel 44:1-2 is a passage often referred to by the early Fathers in this regard. It states: "Then He brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary which faces toward the east, but it was shut. And the Lord said to me, 'This gate shall be shut; it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter by it, because the Lord God of Israel has entered by it; therefore it shall be shut.'"

In traditional interpretation of this passage, Mary is the temple and Christ is the Prince of Peace. The gate mentioned is seen as a picture of Christ's passage through the door of Mary's womb. You might not find that interpretation in some of today's commentaries, but it was held by the great majority of early Church Fathers, as well as many of the Reformation leaders.

At this point, however, a very valid question can be raised. If she remained a virgin, why does the Gospel of Matthew tell us that Joseph knew not his wife until after Christ was born (Matthew 1:25)?

From a Scriptural standpoint, the presence of the phrase "until she had brought forth her firstborn Son," does not automatically mean that Joseph must have known her afterward. This is because in both Greek and Hebrew the word 'until' or 'to' can have several different meanings. We find it in II Samuel 6:23: "Michal, daughter of Saul, had not child to (until) the day of her death." It is used again in Matthew 28:20 where the risen Christ says "Lo, I am with you always, even to (until) the end of the world." And in Deuteronomy 34:6 we read "Moses was buried in a valley in the land of Moab, but no one knows his grave to (until) this day."

Obviously the use of the word in these passages does not imply that Michal had a child after her death, that Christ will depart at the end of the world, or that Moses' burial place was discovered the day Deuteronomy 34:6 was written. By the same token, the word 'until' in Matthew 1:25 does not mean that Joseph and Mary began a sexual union after Christ was born. Such a teaching is found nowhere in Scripture and is contrary to the consistent voice of the entire early Church.

But doesn't the Bible also mention other brothers and sisters of Christ? Who are they and where did they come from?

For one thing, they are never directly called the sons and daughters of Mary and Joseph. In several passages the Bible speaks of the children or relatives as "brothers." Abraham and Lot are called brothers, although Lot was actually Abraham's nephew. And Jacob and Laban are called brothers, even though Jacob was the son of Rebecca, Laban's sister.

Scripture is therefore silent concerning the nature of this relationship between Christ and these brothers and sisters. Early Fathers differed slightly in their understanding of what the terms meant. Some, such as Saint Ambrose, believed that they were children of a former marriage between Joseph and a wife who died prior to Matthew chapter 1. Others taught that they were cousins. But on one point, almost everyone is in agreement: Mary and Joseph had no sexual union whatsoever, before or after the birth of Christ.

I must say in all candor that had my betrothed been the woman chosen by the Father to bear His eternal Son in the flesh, my view of her would have been utterly transformed and my honor for her infinitely heightened. Imagine being betrothed to the Mother of God. It was so with Joseph. His betrothed was ever-virgin.

Is there a reason you decided to quote something about the Virgin Mary? I'm just curious if there's a reason you jumped to that.

sinless of her own free will" isn't what my Bible says.

And, I guess the part where it says:"We believe that the Virgin Mary is the Mother of God." stood out as well. Wasn't Mary the mother of the MAN Jesus? Does God really have a mother?

After seeing the video myself, this doesn't sound like orthodox Christianity in the traditional sense, it may be more like Orthodox Church of America or OCA to be exact.

I don't see a lot of indication in the Bible talking about Mary being the Holy Mother of God.

Also the video seems to indicate that you have to put forth effort or works in order to obtain and maintain salvation. Is this what the OCA teaches?