Evidence for God from Science

The site has helped me plenty but from reading certain verses in the bible it just seems very non-merciful and just plain cruel. I am now contemplating on becoming a Deist. Here are the verse I have read- DUET chap 22 vs 28-29 exodus 21:7 LEV 29:16




Please explain these to me.

Maybe you could be a bit more specific about a couple of things? First, why do these verses bother you? I read the first two (there is no Leviticus 29), and those laws were laid out for the protection of those who the verses address. There's also something to be said about cultural differences in that time compared to today, like the different way that marriage and familial relationships were approached. I could try to give you some links or explain what I know the best I can, but I think I'd have to understand a little better first where you're coming from.

Second, if these verses bother you, why should this specifically lead you to Deism. Isn't that kind of like "throwing out the baby with the bath water". We can see there's some verses troubling you that you don't completely understand (or verses that NONE of us can completely understand), but is that sufficient reason to reject Jesus, the entire Bible, and Christianity as a whole? Whenever you are trying to form a complete world view there are going to be some difficulties. There are difficulties for Christianity, atheism, deism, Islam, you name it... but is there more to it than just this issue?

Probably not a very helpful post, I'm just trying to understand where you're at.

Troublemakingteen wrote:The site has helped me plenty but from reading certain verses in the bible it just seems very non-merciful and just plain cruel. I am now contemplating on becoming a Deist. Here are the verse I have read- DUET chap 22 vs 28-29 exodus 21:7 LEV 29:16

Please explain these to me.

Let me put it mildly as well as bluntly - The Old Testamant law is not for you or I so stop trying to live according to its every letter...

Look at theses verses...

Hebrews 7:12 - For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

Jeremiah, 31:31, 32, 33, 34 - "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

Gal 2:16 - knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Eph 2:15 - having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace...

Rom 8:3, 4 -For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Let me ask you a question troublemakingteen:

Do you really know Jesus?

As well as Why he came to set people free?

The tone of your questions shows me, you are not free and have many conflicts gnawing at your conscience.

Get to know Jesus before trying to understand the Old Testamant Law Moses set forth.
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Also dont forget a lot of the Old testament was about preparing a people to receive the Messiah and for them to be a light to the world so their law does not apply to us. Also the Torah covers a lot about God's Judgement to the races that have fallen so far from him that, even though they have been given enough time for repentance, they have still fallen short. This again does not apply to us as it is the history of a nation. We have Jesus now and are now living under grace rather than the Law.

God Bless

Silvertusk

How about this one:

Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction...
Blessed are those who seize your infants
and dash them against the rocks (Psalms 137:8-9)

Let's be honest - if this is not barbarically ugly, then I don't know what is. God Himself says elsewhere the the Bablyon girl's infants will be "dashed into pieces".

The sooner you admit this, the better.

Instead of trying to defend the morality of these verses, there are better, more intellectually honest ways to approach the problem. We can argue, for example, that God had to compromise His moral standards in order to work with the fallen state mankind found itself in.

smiley wrote:How about this one:

Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction...
Blessed are those who seize your infants
and dash them against the rocks (Psalms 137:8-9)

Let's be honest - if this is not barbarically ugly, then I don't know what is. God Himself says elsewhere the the Bablyon girl's infants will be "dashed into pieces".

The sooner you admit this, the better.

Instead of trying to defend the morality of these verses, there are better, more intellectually honest ways to approach the problem. We can argue, for example, that God had to compromise His moral standards in order to work with the fallen state mankind found itself in.

There I am hearing it again, taking a portion of scripture out of context.

Psalms 137is about an entire people that the Babylonians conquered and took captive to their land. During this conquest, an entire nation's cities were razed, people brutalized, rapine; children slain dashed open killed by the Babylonian empire during a time of war, invasion, relocation.

So in Psalms 137:7, 8, 9 - these captive people cry out (Psalms 137:1-2) for vengeance knowing the principle of sowing and reaping. Hence, since the Babylonians committed heinous atrocities against Jerusalem and the nation of the ancient Jews, they cry out for vengeance –knowing that Babylon’s time will come when they will reap what they have sown.

This principle of sowing and reaping what one sows is illustrated in many ways, For example, during World War Two, Germany bombed British cities first. The British responded by bombing German Cities. Thus Germany reaped what they had sown. Likewise, Japan, before WW II bombed Chinese Cities and committed heinous atrocities in places like Nanking. Eventually, they reaped what they had sown.

What Psalms 137 serves to remind us is this principle: what one sows, they’ll reap to due time. Is it any wonder Jesus said, do unto others as you have them do unto you? How long will it before we realize we reap what we have sown? If peace and love? If bitterness or unforgiveness? Greed and Hate? What will one reap?

Question: sowing a little doubt there Smiley?

Praise be to Jesus, who an set us free from our sins!
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Troublemakingteen wrote:The site has helped me plenty but from reading certain verses in the bible it just seems very non-merciful and just plain cruel. I am now contemplating on becoming a Deist. Here are the verse I have read- DUET chap 22 vs 28-29 exodus 21:7 LEV 29:16
Please explain these to me.

You want the verses explained to you, but you are offended at them even though you evidently don't appreciate them.

Given the scircumstances God was dealing with, what would you do to deter rape?

What faith are you losing anyway?

Have you received "the faith once delivered to the saints? (Jude 3, 19-21, Acts 2:4, 33-39) ?

I honestly have never really read the bible that much. But just from what I have read it is pretty awkward... Like when it says if you were to look at a girl with lust you must gauge your eyes out, what about my hormones? Thats in human nature and cannot be avoided.

I have had faith but recently understood that it was quite blind.

Troublemakingteen wrote:I honestly have never really read the bible that much. But just from what I have read it is pretty awkward... Like when it says if you were to look at a girl with lust you must gauge your eyes out, what about my hormones? Thats in human nature and cannot be avoided.

If that was the case we would all be blind. Which verse are you referring? Also don't forget that the Bible is a middle eastern book. It's not western, so when we try to wrap our western minds around eastern figures of speech we may get mixed results...

Troublemakingteen wrote:The site has helped me plenty but from reading certain verses in the bible it just seems very non-merciful and just plain cruel. I am now contemplating on becoming a Deist. Here are the verse I have read- DUET chap 22 vs 28-29 exodus 21:7 LEV 29:16




Please explain these to me.

I don’t mean this to sound harsh, but it don’t look like you have any faith to lose. The bible is not a book that you can read a few verses and understand. In fact unless God gives you understanding, you are better off not reading it now. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1corinthians1;18).
(John 10 25;30
25.Jesus answered them, "I told you, and ye believed not. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me.

26. But ye believe not, because ye are not of My sheep, as I said unto you.

27. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow Me.

28. And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand.

29. My Father, who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.

30. I and My Father are one."
If you seek the Lord he will make himself known to you. If you ask for understanding, he will give it to you. I urge you to build a relationship with Jesus, and you will see he is far from being “very non-merciful and just plain cruel”.

Ahhh, Troublemakingteen, don't lose faith. I have had so many of the same questions but please know with continued research, my questions have been answered. Part of the problem is exactly what G-man says, you are dealing with a different culture who have idioms just as we do to represent ideas that without studying, will sound as ridiculous as our idioms to those from other cultures. For example, "Hold your horses, break a leg" etc. Take these questions to people who have studied the culture and language before drawing any conclusions. Also, don't try to understand the bible while simply reading isolated verses. Much of your confusion will be understood if you have read the passages before and after as a whole. This is what cleared up so many questions for me. I started to see that God is not cruel and does not break promises. Keep searching, sounds like you have done more searching than many people out there so far and that says alot. Keep it up! I studied philosophy and science and admit it tested my faith through college but because of my continued research, my faith is solid BECAUSE I questioned it.

Trouble,
Sadly your case is very common today. You admit to bible illiteracy, which is an epidemic among old and young alike.

BW has given you some sound things to think on. The question is will you stand on what faith you have and seek out the answers to these questions. My suspiscion is that someone has confonted you with these verses, or you have come across them as an attack on Christianity, not through your own expositional study of scripture. Would that be fair to say? There are hard things in the scriptures. No question about that. But do not assume that because they are hard for you to accept that they are not true, or do not have their place in the scripture.

It is essential for a Christian to learn how to rightly divide the Word of truth. Perhaps this struggle is just a call to you from God on how much you lack in this area. Maybe you are 'losing' your faith because you are not in fertile soil.

Like when it says if you were to look at a girl with lust you must gauge your eyes out, what about my hormones? Thats in human nature and cannot be avoided.

For example, this is not what Jesus was saying. He didn't say you must gouge your eyes out. He is saying that sin has such a terrible effect on man, that we would be better off eternally without our eyes if they cause us to sin. Also, do not blame your hormones for things you can control. If you are like most teens, you are marinated in perverse sexuality. Whether it is from mainstream TV that sexualizes everything, or more serious things such as pornography. Either way, the average person is bombarded with sexual immagery. And in turn, many choose to feed their minds with this perversion.
It is natural to feel attraction. However, it is how you choose to deal with those feelings that makes the difference between attraction and lust. It is one thing to be attracted to a person. It is another to start playing out sexual situations with that person in your mind.

Thanks guys! But the answers I hoped that I wouldn't get basically telling me to "Just believe" came about. But other than that, you guys really helped me.

I can give you some sites that deal with Old Testament violence. Try this:

http://www.epsociety.org/library/articl ... id=45&ap=1

It should be noted that I think that the article is deeply flawed in many respects. However, it's good for a start.