Evidence for God from Science

NICODEMUS THE CHRISTIAN

Nicodemus was a ruling pharisee who believed in Jesus. Nicodemus in Hebrew is Nakdimon. John 3:1-2 records that Nicodemus, "a man of the Pharisees" and "ruler of the Jews" came to Jesus secretly by night. Nicodemus said "Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him." Nicodemus' belief that miracles are real and show God's favor matches Nakdimon's beliefs described in the Taanith.

Jesus tells Nicodemus: "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God", and Nicodemus "saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old?" (John 3-4). Nicodemus seems to be speaking of himself as old, but not necessarily.

Jesus replies to Nicodemus, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God", and refers to Nicodemus' status as "a master of Israel". (John 3:5,10). The phrase "born of water" is unusual, although Christians practiced baptism with water. So for this discussion, water is not just something that cleanses. Someone must be born "of" water, like they are of the spirit.

At the Feast of Tabernacles, Jesus cried "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water", and the pharisees wanted to punish Him. (John 7:32-49). But Nicodemus told them "Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?" The pharisees rebuked him with "Art thou also of Galilee?" and left. (John 7:50-53). This suggests that Nicodemus was from Galilee. The Talmud (Sanhedrin 43) says that they could not simply declare Jesus an enticer and kill him, "for he was connected with the government [or royalty, i.e., influential]."

The apocryphal Gospel of Nicodemus, which the Jewish Encyclopedia (1906 ed.) dates to the 3rd century AD, describes Nicodemus telling Pilate that Jesus did miracles like the prophets and that "he is not worthy of death." In response, the "rest of the Jews" raged against Nicodemus and said "Mayest thou receive his truth and his portion." Nicodemus replied: "Amen, Amen: may I receive it as ye have said."(Gosp. Nicodemus, chp. v.)

After the Crucifixion, Joseph of Arithmea took Jesus' body and Nicodemus "brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury."(John 19:39-40). The Gospel of Nicodemus claims that the disciples scattered, and "Nicodemus alone shewed himself." The "rest of the Jews" asked Nicodemus, "how durst thou enter into the synagogue who wast a confederate with Christ? Let thy lot be along with him in the other world." Nicodemus answered, "Amen; so may it be, that I may have my lot with him in his kingdom."(Nico. IX)

Christian tradition considers Nicodemus to have died a martyr, but I have trouble finding the original source for this claim. I read that an old book by someone called Eustratius mentioned Nicodemus' martyrdom.

Further, in 415 AD, the Christian Church and its leaders in Jerusalem discovered 3 coffins on Gamaliel's estate based on a monk's dream. St Augustine who lived at the time confirmed that an event like this happened. The coffins said in Aramaic that they belonged to Gamaliel, Stephen, and Nicodemus. Before this, the 4th century "Clementine writings" said that the pharisee Gamaliel was a secret Christian like Nicodemus and Joseph of Arithmea. (Early Christians often hid their faith for fear of persecution). It's true that in Acts 5, Gamaliel defended the apostles, saying that if Christianity "be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God." Gamaliel died in 50 AD, so if Nicodemus died a martyr and was buried with St Stephen on Gamaliel's land, it seems like Nicodemus would have died before Gamaliel and been buried on his land. After all, if Nicodemus' burial on Gamaliel's land looks like a goodwill gesture by Gamaliel, and if Gamaliel had died first, he wouldn't have known that Nicodemus had been martyred to extend the gesture. Plus, Gamaliel's grandson Gamaliel II made a special prayer against heresy and used it against Christians after the destruction of the temple (70 AD), so Gamaliel's grandson wouldn''t have buried Nicodemus with his grandfather.

The authenticity of the Gospel of Nicodemus, the Clementine writings, and the discovery based on a monk's dream are debateable, but probably reflect a story handed down from 200-300 years earlier that Nicodemus had been martyred and Gamaliel was a secret Christian.



SUMMARY

So Nicodemus was:
named "Nakdimon", a rare name for Jews.
a "master of Israel", a main ruler, a member of the Sanhedrin, a pharisee
very wealthy to donate 100 pounds of spices
very generous
believed in miracles and believed that they showed God's favor
someone who seeks to learn from Jesus as a Rabbi
a secret Christian whose Christianity certainly became obvious from his burial of Jesus.
someone looked down on by the other pharisees
very likely someone from Galilee
probably killed by the pharisees/saducees/their followers
probably died before Gamaliel (50 AD)
possibly already old in 33 AD
possibly someone for whom the idea of being filled, in a way that makes someone "of water," has special meaning.

THE MARTYRS NAKAI AND BONI

The Talmud, or book of Judaic tradition says that Jesus "was connected with the government [or royalty, i.e., influential]", and thereupon says:

• Yeshu had five disciples, Matthai, Nakai, Nezer, Buni and Todah. When Matthai was brought [before the court] he said to them [the judges], Shall Matthai be executed? ...they retorted; Yes... When Nakai was brought in he said to them; Shall Nakai be executed? It is not written, Naki [the innocent] and the righteous slay thou not? Yes, was the answer, Nakai shall be executed, since it is written, in secret places does Naki [the innocent] slay ... When Buni was brought in, he said: Shall Buni be executed? Is it not written, Beni [my son], my first born? Yes, they said, Buni shall be executed, since it is written, Behold I will slay Bine-ka [thy son] thy first born." (Sanhedrin 43)

The Jewish Encyclopedia writes the name "Buni" in this passage as "Boni". Christian tradition records no other disciples of Jesus named Buni or Boni. The name "Nakai" or "Naki" is the prefix in the name "Nak-dimon."

SUMMARY
Naki and Boni:
have names not recognized in Christianity.
are two major disciples of Jesus
were killed by pharsees/saducees
were killed at the same time as St Matthew

NAKDIMON BEN GURION

Nakdimon ben Gurion was one of Jerusalem's three leading wealthy "Counselors", and belonged to one of Jerusalem's wealthiest families. (See: Lamentations Rabbati 1.5, Gittin 56). In the mid-1st century AD, Nakdimon provided water for Jerusalem's festivals. The Talmud (Taanith, chapter 3) relates that Nakdimon once borrowed 12 wells of water from a heathen Master in a dry year, risking 297 kg of silver if the wells weren't refilled by a certain date. On the day for repayment, he went to the Temple, wrapped himself in his cloak, and prayed: "Creator of the Universe! It is known to Thee, that not for the sake of glory for me... but for the glory of Thy name, that the pilgrims in Jerusalem might have water, did I borrow those wells." Rain fell, the 12 wells refilled, but the day's sun had already set, so the Master demanded the silver. Nakdimon returned and prayed in the Temple "Creator of the Universe! Announce to the world that Thou hast favorites here on earth!", and the sun reappeared to satisfy the promise. The Taanith concludes:

"We have learned in a Boraitha: His name was not Nakdimon, but Boni, and he was called Nakdimon because on his account the sun hastened. The rabbis taught: 'For the sake of each of three men alone the sun shone, and they are Moses, Joshua, and Nakdimon ben Gurion.'"

Tractate Erub 3(4):17 says that the Gurion family's estates were in Ruma, Lower Galilee.

The Talmud (Gittin 56, 5th century) lists Nakdimon ben Gurion as one of three Counselors at the beginning of the Roman Siege of Jerusalem (70 AD). Howebver, it lists the two other counselors by their last names (ben -------), so listing him by his first name could be an error. Lamentations Rabbati 1.5, written in 650 AD, instead lists those two counselors by their last names (ben -----), and then lists two more: his son "ben Nakdimon" (who was in fact named Gurion), and "ben Gurion," who could be Nakdimon ben Gurion himself or his grandson (Joseph ben Gurion). Since his son and probably grandson were leaders in 70 AD, Nakdimon would probably be 50-80 years then, making him 10-40 years old in Jesus' time.

Flavius Josephus records that Nakdimon's son Gurion ben Nakdimon negotiatied with Roman garrisons at the beginning of the war, and the negotiations resulted in the garrisons' surrender. Gurion's son Joseph was a leader of the defenders of Jerusalem. (Wars of the Jews II, 20 and IV, 3,9)

Gittin 56 records that the Zealots destroyed Nakdimon's stores of supplies (wood or food) during the Siege(70 AD) because he offered them to Jerusalem to outlast the siege, but the Zealots wanted Jerusalem to fight instead. The offer of food or wood shows he was generous.

Ketsubos(also called Ketubot) 66-67 and Avot of Rabbi Nathan (Chapter 17) records that a pharisee named Zakkai saw Nakdimon's daughter starving and pulling grain from non-Jews' cattle dung. Zakkai asks her what happened to her father's wealth. She answers with what she calls a "proverb current in Jerusalem" about how to keep money you must give it away. The proverb sounds somewhat Christian. Zakkai is sad to see her so poor, but it doesn't seem that he helps her - he not only agrees with the idea of the proverb, but considers it God's punishment because the family failed to "know" God's ways and be generous enough. The story sounds somewhat allegorical, but it does suggest that his family became destitute and that no one was helping them out of their condition, since she is apparently trying to gather "food" by herself. The pharisee Zakkai's juestification for not helping them would be that their punishment is justice. (although in Christianity we are supposed to help people whether they got their sicknesses or poverty as a punishment or not.) The Talmud then asks how anyone can consider Nakdimon ungenerous. It portrays his generosity as such that when he went to study, servants would put clothes under his feet for him to walk on, and then poor people would take the clothes. It seems to be an extreme joke to talk about walking on people's clothes, so the Talmud actually admits that he was generous, but then tries to deride his generosity and says that he was not generous enough. Further, the Talmud never answers Zakkai's question - what exactly happened to ALL Nakdimon's wealth. The storehouses' destruction is only part of an explanation.

SUMMARY
Nakdimon ben Gurion was:
a Counselor, a ruler
very wealthy
generous
friendly with Jerusalem's heathen rulers
someone who believed in miracles and believed that they show someone to be God's favorite.
devout and one who studies.
from Galiliee
10-40 years old in Jesus' time.
probably lived until the Siege of Jerusalem (70 AD)
lost 100% of his wealth during the Siege of Jerusalem without sufficient explanation in the Talmud
his loss of wealth is portrayed as justice in the Talmud

CLUES:
The Jewish Encyclopedia (1906 ed.) comments that the Talmud's fourth "disciple" called "'Boni' [is] ...probably the Nicodemus mentioned by John", since Nakdimon's real name was Boni. Nicodemus could also be "Nakai", since Nak-- (innocent) is the prefix in the name Nakdimon. Christian tradition records no other disciples of Jesus named Nicodemus or Boni, but it does consider Nicodemus a martyr.

The High Priest Annas II waited until the Roman goverrnor's absence to execute Jesus' brother James in 62 AD.
Since Nakdimon was close enough to the Romans that he could borrow 12 wells of water from them, the Sanhedrin would have been less likely to execute him under Rome. The Romans lost control in AD 70.


PUTTING THE PIECES TOGETHER

The inconsistencies are that the Bible and tradition suggests that
Nicodemus:
probably died before Gamaliel (50 AD)
was possibly already old in 33 AD

but the Talmud suggests that
Nakdimon ben Gurion:
was 10-40 years old in Jesus' time.
probably lived until the Siege of Jerusalem (70 AD)
lost 100% of his wealth during the Siege of Jerusalem

Otherwise, the pieces match

Rakovsky. This looks to me like a large cut and paste from another site. Are you the author of this? If so, what it the point or issue you wish to discuss? Please answer back and let me know. If I don't hear from you, I'll need to remove it. Thanks.

Canuckster!

Hey!

Sure, I can explain.

The post is my musings. I think that Nicodemus is an important person. He was a ruling pharisee, and if a ruling pharisee living in Jesus' time saw Jesus as the Messiah, and accepted Jesus' view of a dying and rising Messiah, then this is further "evidence" in favor of Christianity.

The claim of skeptics and of Judaism is that Christ was not the Messiah, that the idea of a dying and rising savior is foreign to Judaism, and that the gospels could be just a myth.

But here we have Nicodemus, a pharisee, one of the most famous and devout at the time, endorsing Christ and Christianity.

If we can match him to Nakdimon in ancient traditions, for whom the sun shone like Joshua and Moses, then this is further evidence of all of this.

So I set out what we know about Nicodemus, then the story about the 5 martyrs, and then what we know about Nakdimon from the ancient traditions. The internet has some thinking about him, but never lays out point by point what we know about each, or puts the stories in concise form.

The problem I come up with, though, is that the mention of the martyrdom seems to possibly conflict, and I would like to see- can someone reconcile the conflicts, or make a decision about them? Maybe someone has some ideas? Perhaps some more information about Nicodemus, or theories about how theis might come together?

All the best!

-Rakovsky

Fair enough. Thanks for responding and clarifying. It will be interesting to see what responses you get.

One question is whether Matthias was killed in 70 AD. Some sources say he was killed in 63 AD, but http://dipendente.typepad.com/ says that Matthias was killed in 70 AD, which would match the information about Nakdimon.

The problem text is Gittin 56 (http://www.come-and-hear.com/gittin/gittin_56.html):

He [the Emperor] sent against them Nero the Caesar.

He then sent against them Vespasian the Caesar8 who came and besieged Jerusalem for three years. There were in it three men of great wealth, Nakdimon b. Gorion, Ben Kalba Shabua' and Ben Zizith Hakeseth.

One of these said to the people of Jerusalem, I will keep them in wheat and barley.

The biryoni [the Zealots - one of the precursors to modern-day Zionists] were then in the city. The Rabbis said to them: Let us go out and make peace with them [the Romans]. They would not let them, but on the contrary said, Let us go out and fight them. The Rabbis said: You will not succeed. They then rose up and burnt the stores of wheat and barley so that a famine ensued.

But maybe it is not so problematic.

What were the 3 years of the Siege of Jerusalem?

The Jewish-Roman war began in 66 AD, Jerusalem was beseiged in 70 AD and the Temple destroyed then in 70 AD, and the war ended in 73 AD with the fall of Masada.

Maybe the three years started in 67 AD?

Further, the claim in Ketubot that Nakdimon's money was gone when his daughter searched through dung is contradicted by the following passage, which is very similar to the one in Ketubot 66-67 about Zakkai meeting Nakdimon's daughter. It is contradicted, because it seems to show she herself throwing away the money after she had touched the dung.

(Gitton 56 said that Nakdimon was one of the three Boetheus - "Counselors"- and here soon afterwards it talks about Martha the daughter of Boethius touching dung and Zakkai commenting on her as in Ketubot 66-67)

They then rose up and burnt the stores of wheat and barley so that a famine ensued. Martha the daughter of Boethius was one of the richest women in Jerusalem. She sent her man-servant out saying, Go and bring me some fine flour. By the time he went it was sold out. He came and told her, There is no fine flour, but there is white [flour]. She then said to him, Go and bring me some. By the time he went he found the white flour sold out. He came and told her, There is no white flour but there is dark flour. She said to him, Go and bring me some. By the time he went it was sold out. He returned and said to her, There is no dark flour, but there is barley flour. She said, Go and bring me some. By the time he went this was also sold out. She had taken off her shoes, but she said, I will go out and see if I can find anything to eat. Some dung stuck to her foot and she died.12 Rabban Johanan b. Zakkai applied to her the verse, The tender and delicate woman among you which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground.13 Some report that she ate a fig left by R. Zadok, and became sick and died. For R. Zadok observed fasts for forty years in order that Jerusalem might not be destroyed, [and he became so thin that] when he ate anything the food could be seen [as it passed through his throat.] When he wanted to restore himself, they used to bring him a fig, and he used to suck the juice and throw the rest away. When Martha was about to die, she brought out all her gold and silver and threw it in the street, saying, What is the good of this to me, thus giving effect to the verse, They shall cast their silver in the streets.14

Canuckster,

Thank you still for showing interest. I know we didn't get any responses, but still it was helpful to hash out the ideas about Nicodemus. After putting the pieces together, I think that Nicodemus is the same person as the patron Nakdimon (ie. "Nicodemus") Ben Gurion. Their personalities and personal characteristics match up so well, that a Christian reading about Nicodemus around the time John's gospel was written would think of Nakdimon Ben Gurion.

The problem I have with this view is that the Talmudic histories don't fully and explicitly say he was a Christian. But on the other hand, there wouldn't be a strong expectation that they would. First of all, he was a secret Christian, and second he was an important patron, so the Talmudists wouldn't find it to their advantage to bring this out. Finally, it is worth pointing out that the Talmud does have a weird explanation for the loss of his wealth and his daughter's impoverishment that sounds like something of a pretext for the real, hidden explanation.

After hashing it out and thinking it over I concluded that Nicodemus really was Nakdimon Ben Gurion, and wrote about it on my website, where I talked more about how the early church's strong roots in the native people and communities of the Holy Land, and the interpretation of ancient scriptures predicting Christ;s resurrection. rakovskii.livejournal.com I invite you at your convenience to have a look!

Thanks also for your work on God and Science. I appreciate the open minded yet critical approach, which really is scientific. It makes one's conclusions therefore much more certain.

Canuckster1127 wrote:Fair enough. Thanks for responding and clarifying. It will be interesting to see what responses you get.

Happy Nativity, Canuckster.

OK its now 6 years later. I hope you still monitor. I've been researching Nicodemus and found your information. If Nicodemus was a believer - I too think he was - why didn't he exit Jerusalem as warned by Jesus? My understanding is that there were no Christians left in Jerusalem. I assume that means at most a very few remained. That was one of the complaints of the Jews in later centuries - that Christians abandoned Jerusalem - and might have helped save the city from destruction if they had staid and fought.

Nicky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmvKbWuMExk